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General election 2024

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think the UK will become a barren, post-apocalyptic, dystopian, hell-scape if Labour win?

713 replies

Fiftypencepiece · 24/05/2024 13:02

AIBU to be worried that within 2-3 years of a Labour victory, the UK will become a barren, post-apocalyptic, dystopian hell-scape?

Kier Starmer seems like a mad, leftist radical to me. It starts with VAT on school fees but where does it end???

I’m also really concerned that the imminent collapse of civilisation will have a big impact on house prices, and leave us in negative equity.

Anyone else?

OP posts:
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25
TryingToSeeTheFunnySide · 01/06/2024 06:10

Gosh, I'm such a ninny!
It took me till about halfway through this thread to realise the OP was being ironic! 🤭
For a moment there I was getting scared that people actually think Keir Starmer is far-left!

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 06:13

TryingToSeeTheFunnySide · 01/06/2024 06:10

Gosh, I'm such a ninny!
It took me till about halfway through this thread to realise the OP was being ironic! 🤭
For a moment there I was getting scared that people actually think Keir Starmer is far-left!

Closing down schools is pretty far left by anyone’s standards.

TryingToSeeTheFunnySide · 01/06/2024 06:35

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 06:13

Closing down schools is pretty far left by anyone’s standards.

Well, I'd like to see private schools abolished entirely, so just removing charitable status and adding VAT is not radical at all. For private schools to still have charitable status is scandalous.
Our education system is very unfair. An exemplary state system for all is achievable, and all our children deserve an excellent education, not just the children of the wealthy and privileged.
I'm most definitely not voting Labour in this election by the way, and Keir Starmer is far too right-wing and authoritarian for me. The Green Party gets my vote. I don't consider myself far-left at all by the way. It's just normal average social democracy 😊

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 06:42

TryingToSeeTheFunnySide · 01/06/2024 06:35

Well, I'd like to see private schools abolished entirely, so just removing charitable status and adding VAT is not radical at all. For private schools to still have charitable status is scandalous.
Our education system is very unfair. An exemplary state system for all is achievable, and all our children deserve an excellent education, not just the children of the wealthy and privileged.
I'm most definitely not voting Labour in this election by the way, and Keir Starmer is far too right-wing and authoritarian for me. The Green Party gets my vote. I don't consider myself far-left at all by the way. It's just normal average social democracy 😊

And ‘abolishing’ things is the only way forward that you can see, and the hard left is not far left enough for you 🤷🏼‍♀️. Rigghtteeeoo. Your ideal model country seems to be North Korea. Or China. Certainly not a civilised and functioning democracy.

Spaghettily · 01/06/2024 07:16

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 19:27

It is. I’m afraid. No other have attempted to ‘equalise’ the whole of society by closing down thousands of schools for kicks.

The ridiculous hyperbole and catastrophic thinking here are making you sound unhinged and a bit like a Russian bot trying to stir up division. Had you been drinking when you typed this?

We chose private education until we moved, and I feel very confident that this 20% hike will be easily assimilated:

For schools;
Some of it will be regained in claiming back VAT on some costs.
Some of it can be saved by making cuts - Our DC old school have been buying up property and expanding provision that they didn’t necessarily need. They have so many specialist teachers (specific to specific sports and arts).
They could make more money by offering places in after school clubs to other children.
They could stop including lunch in the price and charge for it (with the option of bringing in packed lunch)
They could charge to hire out the many facilities (lovely old building with excellent catering and a chapel is ripe for weekend weddings)

Parents can;
Cut down on (in most cases) or stop having holidays.
downgrade their cars (all had at least two)
Sell one of their properties (or downsize/remortgage if they only have one)
Ask grandparents for help.
Sell an asset or two (most had expensive jewellery, assets like boats, sports equipment, etc)
Shift from Waitrose to Aldi
Eat out less.
Mother could up her hours or start working - many didn’t need to work at all.
Give up Country club/Sports club membership
Take out a loan
Sell some shares
Go for a promotion/expand the business.
Sack the cleaner/gardener
Wash and groom their own dog.
Have fewer hair/nail appointments
Take on some shifts as an Uber driver or Tesco delivery driver.
Move home to a smaller house or cheaper area (all lived in the more expensive areas, many had very large houses, with way more room than actually needed).

I mean I could go on. Basically there are loads of ways the school could save or make more money and loads of ways the parents could save or make more money.

I have seen so many posts on here when people are seriously struggling to pay for basics where there are posts saying they need to go for a better job, move house to a new area etc. The families using private education are WAY more resourced to find savings or increase income.

If those running and using private education facilities can’t find a way to adapt to a 20% rise then I’d be very surprised and it would certainly question the argument that these people are the people who we rely on to bring in wealth to society and add so much value.

My experience is that most parents were very savvy with money and the school was very well run by excellent people so I’m sure they will cope just fine.

We are NOT going to see swathes of these kids needing state education or masses of these schools closing. It’s just not going to happen. I will eat my hat if that does happen and you can hold me to that!

Spaghettily · 01/06/2024 07:23

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 06:13

Closing down schools is pretty far left by anyone’s standards.

Except the policy is just adding in a tax that would have/should have been there all along, is fair and the only reason it wasn’t there in the first place is because the people that were making the decisions were the ones to benefit and the ones with the power. Your hyperbole makes you sound like a a Russian bot. You need to take some slow breaths. It will be ok. Don’t worry.

Alexandra2001 · 01/06/2024 08:18

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 06:13

Closing down schools is pretty far left by anyone’s standards.

Not even the private school sector are suggesting this, textra in fees he vast majority of PS parents are extremely well off and will afford the 10% as not all the 20% will be passed on.

TBH You sound like that born liar Jonathan Gullis, he makes up bonkers stuff too but the good news is, just like Gullis, you actually encourage people to vote Labour..... so fill ya boots!!!

HebburnPokemon · 01/06/2024 09:24

YABU

DuncinToffee · 01/06/2024 11:38

So when is the invasion of the state schools supposed to happen, bearing in mind the places for Sept have already been allocated?

Exasperatednow · 01/06/2024 11:59

Lots of schools across the country have falling roles. There are lots of schools that have empty places this September.

EffieeBriest · 01/06/2024 13:02

Yes but the schools these private school refugees will end up at will be full of shudder working class children…

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 13:25

Exasperatednow · 01/06/2024 11:59

Lots of schools across the country have falling roles. There are lots of schools that have empty places this September.

Not thousands though, and it’s area specific.

L1ttledrummergirl · 01/06/2024 13:29

A quick Google says that there are 554316 pupils in private education

https://tutorful.co.uk/blog/private-school-statistics-uk-independent-schools

Other sources say 620000.

Assuming that 20% of children are withdrawn (the figure I've heard being quoted) this means

110863- 124000 will need state school places.

We have 24953 state schools in this country, so as an average each school would need to take

4-5 pupils

Something tells me that this will not be a problem.

Tutorful - Private School Statistics UK 2023 - Independent Schools

How many of the UK’s adults went to private schools? And more to the point, how do they feel it affected their career later in life? We look at this and other figures in our 2023 round up of UK private school statistics.

https://tutorful.co.uk/blog/private-school-statistics-uk-independent-schools

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 13:36

L1ttledrummergirl · 01/06/2024 13:29

A quick Google says that there are 554316 pupils in private education

https://tutorful.co.uk/blog/private-school-statistics-uk-independent-schools

Other sources say 620000.

Assuming that 20% of children are withdrawn (the figure I've heard being quoted) this means

110863- 124000 will need state school places.

We have 24953 state schools in this country, so as an average each school would need to take

4-5 pupils

Something tells me that this will not be a problem.

Edited

You haven’t factored in the number of schools already struggling that will be forced to close and the pressure locally. 20% is too small a figure of departures, it will be much higher because many pupils won’t get the choice.

All of the SS are oversubscribed already so what happens then? The council have to create, by law, new places and the schools will be forced to absorb unfunded children and it could be hundreds and up to a thousand children around here if the local private school goes bust. This policy has not been thought through, at all.

You are massively overly simplifying.

DuncinToffee · 01/06/2024 14:01

If only the government hadn't underfunded the state sector for the last 14 years.

BIossomtoes · 01/06/2024 14:03

All of the SS are oversubscribed already

They’re not. Many have vacancies.

findingmoi · 01/06/2024 14:04

Kier Starmer kicked off his campaign this morning with 'wealth creation' as his tagline.

He means taxing the hard workers more and feeding the low income families, right?

There are far too many families paying full whack for childcare as they don't benefit for an hour free, they are paying enormous taxes, travel to go to work 5 days a week, mortgage....... these 'high Income' families are left with little left over each month.

As someone who 'earns 6 figures' I don't qualify for anything. Yet I have 2 DCs in nursery 5 days a week, plus wrap around care and the rest. I can't keep paying for everyone else to have free childcare and housing Kier.

DuncinToffee · 01/06/2024 14:09

His name is Keir

L1ttledrummergirl · 01/06/2024 14:38

Assuming that every private school closed (unlikely), and all 600,000 pupils needed to move into state education, then as an average each school will need to take 25 extra pupils. This figure is still not beyond the means of schools, especially with all the extra teachers that will be looking for work.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-capacity

Shows: In 2023, there were 578,000 unfilled places in primary schools, an increase of 1% from 569,000 in 2022, and 26% more than in 2010 (458,000).
There were 465,000 unfilled places in secondary schools, a decrease of 7% from 502,000 in 2022, although 31% more than 2010 (355,000).
Overall, in primary and secondary schools, there were 1 million unfilled places (12% of total school places available), a decrease of 28,000 places since 2022, however the proportion of the total places available remains similar. This is an increase from 814,000 places in 2010 (10% of total school places available). The increase is a combination of the population having moved into and then out of primary over the last 12 years, and secondary capacity being added in preparation.

There is capacity in the state system.

School capacity, Academic year 2022/23

<p>This release publishes data reported by local authorities in England, in the annual School Capacity (SCAP) survey,&nbsp;as of 1 May 2023.&nbsp;</p><p>Information is included on:&nbsp;</p><ul><li>The numbers of primary and secondary state-funded scho...

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-capacity

Anniegetyourgun · 01/06/2024 15:03

Why would "wealth creation" mean "tax increases"? Confused

pointythings · 01/06/2024 15:19

All of the SS are oversubscribed already so what happens then?

Well, this is simply not true. Not a single state school, secondary or primary, in my area is oversubscribed. All but one are rated Good or above.

BIossomtoes · 01/06/2024 15:40

Anniegetyourgun · 01/06/2024 15:03

Why would "wealth creation" mean "tax increases"? Confused

It wouldn’t. There wouldn’t be all these fabled six figure earners without wealth creation.

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 18:18

BIossomtoes · 01/06/2024 15:40

It wouldn’t. There wouldn’t be all these fabled six figure earners without wealth creation.

Labour know fuck all about wealth creation. I have heard it all now!!!

DuncinToffee · 01/06/2024 18:29

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 18:18

Labour know fuck all about wealth creation. I have heard it all now!!!

Conservatives know all about poverty creation, maybe you prefer that?

Polishedshoesalways · 01/06/2024 18:30

DuncinToffee · 01/06/2024 18:29

Conservatives know all about poverty creation, maybe you prefer that?

Poverty creation?! Never heard of it, made up by you.