What are you doing to support your lacking-in-direction, lackadaisical 15/16 year old for post GSCE choices?

[OwlBeGone]

Getting quite worried! Ds is 15, not hugely academic, predicted mostly 5s at GSCE. He doesn't want to go to uni & "doesn't want another 2 years in a classroom". He's even talking about the Armed Forces (which for him, I believe, is just a 'last resort' thing because he's struggling to know what to do with himself). He's not particularly practical so I don't think a trade would work either. As awful as this sounds, his dad and I are a bit at a loss because we both went to uni and his sister is there now. He's not really talking to us about what he even THINKS he wants to do, and it feels like he's disengaged. We are going to take him to various open days and will look at A levels he might want to do, as well as T levels and Btechs. It's just all quite confusing! Especially when you've got a son who seems a bit adrift himself. Any advice?

For DD they rotated practicals (1 day a week) around the 7 areas, 2 weeks at each. So per year only 4 actual practical days in any one area.

@Passthecake30 I am not trying to put you off but triple award Btec can be quite intensive in itself if your Ds wants to achieve merit or distinction especially for a child having anxiety.

Sounds good. The kennels sound right up my sons street. Hopefully he’ll figure it out within the next year.

Thanks @Hopeforb, I don’t think he’d be hoping for a distinction. I’ll speak to the school at the 6th form open evening about the volume of work though, thanks. They only do A levels and some Btecs at his school and he’d probably be better staying at school with his friends. I’ve found somewhere that does T levels but that would mean a couple of buses or a bus and a train, compared to a 15min walk.

@clary

But your comparison of PE (less academic) and biology (more academic) or media and Eng lit won't fly. And there is a media teacher on this board who would agree with me

But this isn't true. Sone subjects are facilitating subjects which Russell Group unis accept & Biology is on the list as is English Lit. Media & PE are not. Some A levels are more challenging than others. Ask a student who does a mixture & they will agree.

I think T Levels might be best - 20% work experience & 80% college. Or BTEC at college.

Don't assume doing traditional A levels & going off to uni is necessarily going to lead to a better job. There's loads of great courses out there.

Also grade 5s are perfectly decent passes. GCSE are just a stepping stone to nest level.

@clary

www.tutorchase.com/blog/top-10-hardest-a-levels

Hi there, another one here with DS 15 in Year 11 that is really at a loss as to what to do after school. He has ADHD and has struggled through secondary school. He is likely to get majority 5’s with one or 2 6’s and hopefully a 7 in Art. He is creative and has a natural aptitude for Art & Design. But given he is good at these subjects he still doesn’t really have any passion for them and does not work harder in these subjects.

He is likely to stay on at his school 6th form given that the majority of them do. But I’m not convinced it’s the right place for him. They tend to focus on A levels, with just a handful of Btecs on offer and 1 T level. The latter aren’t in subjects that he is interested in. I think he will probably do Art and 3D Design A levels but I worry that the workload will be too much for him.

There is another sixth form college that does an Art & Design Btec that I think is potentially more suited to him but it would mean an hours bus journey there and back. With his school sixth form in walking distance and the majority of his friends staying on I can’t see that he will choose the other college.

At the moment I can’t see that DS will want to go past further education unless he decides that he wants to go to Art school. So it pretty much feels like he will just be occupying the next 2 years until the time that he no longer has to be in education.

It definitely feels like DS is 2 years behind developmentally and isn’t ready to be making these decisions. I know that this is likely due to his ADHD, where they say they can be up to 5 years behind developmentally. I do worry about him but am hoping it’s just a matter of time and things will eventually fall in to place for DS. Doesn’t help us right now though.

@converseandjeans facilitating subjects are no longer regarded as such, tho for sure you need some of them to do certain degrees. PE is certainly accepted by RG unis, I know this as my DS took it and got RG offers. I am sure media is as well. The only subject I know of that’s not accepted is general studies IIRC.

I work in employability support, from age 16 onwards and it is shocking how little many know of the realities of the workplace. A good place to start is the 'line in the sand' for employment / apprenticeships and this is GCSE English and Maths and even those offering apprenticeships will focus on those that already have these qualifications. Some BTECs will be defunded in 2025, so worth checking, as this can impact on delivery in colleges prior to them disappearing from their offering. Perhaps a conversation about just how broad the world of work is, as career education and support is woeful in many places, non-existent in others and sometimes simply focused on signposting to local provision in others (gets a Gatsby box tick). Start the conversation early and reverse the focus by using job adverts to see what an employer is asking for in their candidates and then how you get to this starting block, if that's a job you'd like to do, or would like to have the option of applying for. The best work often comes with short term pain (study etc.) and has the best longest term gain, but I agree, 16 is too young to choose now and we need to broaden how we prepare young people for what next. This website might help starts some conversations https://www.ucas.com/careers-advice

Also the A levels you find challenging is surely related to the student and their skills?

My DD found music A level (not on the old facilitating subject list as it goes) so difficult that she switched to French - which was on the list. Not that the list itself has much relevance now (except in that the subjects on it keep doors open - you need biology A level to study biology, but not psychology to study psych).

@clary

I imagine all A levels are accepted by RG unis. I think however a student with A-levels in say Eng Lit, French & Geography would be more likely to get onto say a law degree than someone with PE, media & BTEC business studies. Anyway this is detailing the thread. My daughter wants to do Media Studies & I'm happy with that as I think she will enjoy it.

This article from FFT shows that there are definitely some subjects which are more challenging academically than others.

ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2022/06/why-a-level-physics-students-are-doubly-penalised-by-grading-severity/

@converseandjeans apologies, I thought you were saying that PE and other subjects not on the list we no longer use 😁 we're not accepted by RG.

Eng lit, French and geography is what my dd took, randomly! She didn't do law tho thank goodness.

I guess my concern when I posted before was that no A level is easy. It may be that some feel more challenging- dd found French a real slog, for several reasons; I otoh found it a breeze, but really struggled with Greek. I wouldn't want any student to think "I'll pick sociology, media and PE bc they are easy", that's all.

@RRollergirl11
Would you consider Art foundation course after 18?
A good friend also has an arty DD and she is at a loss what to to pick for post16.
However, she is keen on art foundation for a year. It's just the 16 to 18 she needs to get through which seems hard.

I have a y12 DD who is struggling with no future goals, so this thread has been helpful.
I am preparing back up options in case she will drop y12 for some reason.

There is a L3 Art foundation course that is examined by UAL. My DS looked into it and really liked it. He has applied for it, but its his insurance choice in case he needs to resit GCSE maths. The only thing may be that its a bit restrictive at the age of 16.

@clary

MFL is one of the hardest especially as there are native speakers who take it. Also lots of different skills needed.

I don't think any A level is easy - I also think apprenticeship route won't necessarily be a doddle. I was brought up to think traditional A-levels would be the best thing to do. But as I've got older I see people who were far less academic than me getting on just fine & often earning more. Luckily I'm old enough to not have student loans. I don't know that I would recommend uni now unless there was a specific course they wish to do.

@converseandjeans i think we can agree on all that! I taught and now tutor MFL so I agree, it can be a real challenge, and that includes for native speakers.

Aldo deffo agree re uni - it’s not for everyone, and that’s totally fine.

Hello, I'm the OP and I'm sorry I abandoned this thread. It's good to see others have found it useful and thanks for all the perspectives. I'm not much further forward with ds. We've been to a couple of open days - he expressed some interest in a construction, surveying and planning type T-level but then on Sunday had a massive flip out, tears and sobbing that he was overwhelmed and still didn't know what he wanted to do. He's also massively loss confidence because he was dropped or drifted away from his small friendship group and is spending every day at school alone.

The only vague thing he's said is he would like to work outside "maybe". There's a one year city and guilds level 2 horticulture course at one of the local colleges - do I encourage him to try that? He's applied for some volunteering at a local rspb nature reserve. Even if this turns out to be another path he doesn't want to go down, it would only be a year and he'd still have 2 further funded years of education post-16?

Argh minefield!!

OP. He can apply for as wide a range of courses as he likes at this stage. he doesn't need to finally decide until end of August. Or he can wait to apply until July, but then he may find some courses are full.

Level 2 Horticulture would be outside I guess. I would at some stage get him to look at the spec. It is likely to be something like 2 days theory and 1 day practical per week (plus if needed English / Maths on top).

There is of course also Conservation, Arboriculture and also something like Outdoor Pursuits. Then you have Uniformed Public Services a lot of which would be outside in real life probably.

Horticulture is parks and gardens. Conservation is wildlife reserves. I know this as it is all part of 'land based Industries' along with Animal Care, and DD had to do a multichoice exam which covered these (as well as Floristry and Farming).

I have similar concerns re ds2. Away with the fairies, wants to do something sporty but knows not what. Tried to explain that becoming a physio and getting a job at Chelsea football club wasn't realistic.

I’ve got one who plans to be a physio for Man United - perhaps they’ll meet each other pitch side 😂

I’ve just tried to have a conversation with him in the car while he’s not able to run away but it’s like getting blood out of a stone. Doesn’t want to go to college or do an apprenticeship, just wants to go to Uni to do <vague wave of hand> something in sports, but no idea what (other than the Man U physio…) - and the chances of him getting sufficient Highers are slim to none at the rate he’s going. Parents night tomorrow - oh joy.

@SirChenjins

@SirChenjins you made me 😂
@Rollergirl11 I have noticed with my DS on ASD that he learns things bit late then his peers then eventually gets there. I understand its not ideal when it comes to education. They will excel in what they have passion for. I have passed through these worries. It doesn't help. For your wellbeing do you go to Coffee mornings or Meets and Chats for mums/parents on SEN? It definitely helps.

That was my ds. He went to college, hated his course so changed it after a year. Still wasn’t engaged but at the end of that second year (first year of his new btec) he suddenly grew up as he realised his original mates were off to uni to have fun, so he decided to pull his finger out for his last year at college and is now at uni himself.
He had to make those decisions for himself though. Whilst at school we encouraged, bribed, came down hard but nothing was working. What did work was backing off completely and just waiting for him to mature and realise the importance of education for himself. Being bored in his part time job helped!