Is it true that clever people go to 6th form and people who aren't go to college

[thistimeiknowitsforreal]

Evening all,

It was always drummed into me that after GCSE`s that if you are intelligent you went to or stayed at school and went to 6th form depending on your previous circumstances.

But if you weren't good enough you went to college instead.

Whats your experience in this area ?

I thought it was quite sad to stay on at school. 6th form college was much more exciting! I have a degree & run an organisation now. So I'm not thick.

Why can`t not so academic kids have a go at academic subjects ? Bit short sighted ?

Of course they can if they really want to, but success rates are not high.
This is a bit old now, as it references old GCSE grades, but you still might find it interesting: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/610077/Progression_from_GCSE_to_A_level_-_Comparative_Progression_Analysis_as_a_new_approach_to_investigating_inter-subject_comparability.pdf
There is another report somewhere with loads more graphs on direct subject comparison but I didn't find it on my quick search.

Ultimately, if you are only just passing your GCSEs, your chance of success at even harder levels will be lower.
It is better probably to succeed (e.g. MMM or better) at a vocational course than get very low grade A levels.

(But again that isn't a college v school issue as such, given that in lots of areas you can do A levels at college.)

I would hope it`s an outdates attitude

If it was up to me i would make it compulsory for anyone taking A levels to also do 1 practical qualification to see if they can do it all and are brilliant.

This would also all the people who are solely academic to experience failure which would be good also.

DS1 went to 6th form, left after A levels. DS2 went to college and is now studying medicine at uni. So your theory is a bit rubbish!

Why does the perception exist then ?

I think, as has been said before, that people have a different perception of what is meant by 'college'. It is very area dependent.

• In the 'old days' grammar schools had 6th forms where (clever) grammar pupils stayed for A levels, and those at the secondary modern left for work or went to college to do a vocational course (unless they transferred to grammar).


• In some areas these days e.g. Hants there are no 6th forms in schools at all, so all pupils go to 'college' whether doing A levels or vocational courses


• Some areas have 6th forms in some schools as well as colleges offering A levels and vocational courses. In some of these schools they may be able to be highly selective about the pupils they take, so set high entrance grades. This could lead to a perception that less able pupils wanting to do A levels go to college for them (inferring they couldn't get the grades to stay on) whereas in fact for reasons discussed in this thread, many brighter pupils these days make an active choice for college.


• There is no getting away from the fact that from a purely academic point of view, some less academic pupils can achieve well in BTECs whereas they would have done poorly at A level.

So as with all things, the view of some that 'college' is for less able pupils is a matter of legacy ideas, mixed with incorrect understanding of what courses colleges offer, mixed with the fact that school 6th forms offer a highly restricted number of BTECs, if any at all.

OP, are you going to engage at all with the detail discussions on this thread, or just keep on with 1 line responses? What did you think of the government report I linked to up thread? What were you thinking 'college' covered when you started this thread? What's the backstory to you asking?

In all honesty, it's true in our area.

But we have a number of high performing state and private schools so those who don't get high enough grades to qualify for sixth form then go to the colleges. Nothing wrong with that and some prefer the more vocational options.

@lot123 in your area, do the colleges offer a full range of A levels, or only vocational?

in your area, do the colleges offer a full range of A levels, or only vocational?

Having just had a look, they offer A levels in addition to vocational qualifications.

My area probably isn't typical though, it's a high income demographic with lots of people working in professional services in London. I suspect most parents would encourage their kids to stay on for school sixth forms, along with some fairly sharp elbowed tutoring to improve the odds of them getting the grades.

No judgement either way but it's the way it works here in reality. The kids I know who have found GCSEs a struggle academically are really enjoying college so it's been a good choice for them.

When I was at school in the 90's people who got good enough GCSE's stayed on at school and those that didn't went to college to do more vocational stuff. Now at ds's school it's the same I'd say. Both schools were considered to be very good schools so parents wanted their kids to stay on there. If you're at a good school I'm not sure why you would go elsewhere to do A-levels.

My 6th form didn't offer the courses I wanted to do so I went to college. Went on to do a BSc, MSc and PhD so I disagree with your theory.

I’d say again, that just because you, as a a clever person, or kids you know who are clever went to college, doesn’t mean the statement isn’t true.

On a broad scale across the whole country, I would say it is true and that those who are higher achievers at GCSE are more likely to be found in school than college. This won’t apply to all areas because some don’t really have sixth forms in schools and provision differs a lot. Given 20% of sixth formers are in private education and almost all of that is in schools, straight off, you’ve got a good chunk in schools. Of course lots of high achievers go to college too. Some prefer the idea of college, some find more choice of subject at college and in some areas it’s college or nothing. But where there are sixth forms in schools, those staying tend to be more academic. It’s because schools often focus wholly or mostly on A Levels. Those doing vocational qualifications, who broadly across the whole cohort tend to have lower GCSE grades, tend to go to college. And again, I’m not saying clever students never do vocational qualifications or those who do them don’t go onto be hugely successful.

So, given vocational qualifications tend to be college based, most of those with a lower GCSE profile go there. There are far more options. In itself, this means there is an imbalance in terms of where those with higher and lower prior attainment end up. Those with higher attainment are more spread between schools and colleges. Those with lower attainment are more concentrated.

Earlier in this thread I put in a link which showed some evidence of prior attainment and where students studied. It is true that schools have a higher or operation of their students with higher attainment, but this doesn’t mean everyone who goes to college has lower attainment or doesn’t do well. Of course students with all grade 9s go to college and some get all A* at A Levels and go onto Oxbridge etc. Look too, though at where those at Oxbridge and RG unis did their sixth form educations. Again, both sixth form colleges and schools send students, but lots are coming from the more traditional school route.

I have to admit i have not read the full report no or yet anyway as all day looking at a computer screen in my job there is only so much i can take.

I guess college to me means both vocational subjects and also A levels.

The back story is the difference between my own education and my sister and other relatives. I am about the only one who went to college everyone else went/stayed in 6th form.

Change of scene after 5 years maby.

Around here you havs to go to the next town for a school with a 6th form, we have two large colleges though , that offer a wide range incl a levels
Mine both went to college doing btechs , ds1 is off to uni on his supposedly less clever btech

I’d say again, that just because you, as a a clever person, or kids you know who are clever went to college, doesn’t mean the statement isn’t true.

I agree. Of course it's not true that only less academic kids go to college. But, at the overall level, there's a higher proportion of academic kids in sixth forms compared to colleges. Anecdotal examples won't really change that.

The kids I know currently at sixth form college went to private schools but felt like a square peg in a round hole. They didn't like the discipline and lack of freedom, and some were a bit disruptive as a result. They're flourishing in college as they're choosing to be there and prefer the less rigid set-up and greater personal freedom.

Of course it's not true that only less academic kids go to college. But, at the overall level, there's a higher proportion of academic kids in sixth forms compared to colleges. Anecdotal examples won't really change that

Not if you live somewhere where the education system doesn’t have school sixth forms. Which many, many places in the UK do not. There seems to be disbelief that in some areas, all pupils of all abilities go to sixth form college, because schools don’t run past age 16. It’s really bizarre that you and other posters seem unable to comprehend this.

However despite areas like Hants, it is still true.
In Hants 50% of pupils in college are academic, 50% less so.

In a 6th form area, say 80%+ of pupils in 6th form will be academic, and 60%+ of pupils in colleges will be less academic.

So overall across England, it is still true to say that those in 6th form are more likely to be academic than those in college. But obviously not true for some specific areas such as Hants.

Where I live, generally pupils who want to study A levels stay on at school whereas pupils who want to study vocational courses go to college. It doesn't necessarily mean that one set is cleverer than the other, they just have different interests and aptitudes.

Plenty of the students who go to college to study things like agriculture or business then go on to university, so end up with the same qualifications as those who took the traditional A level route.

Not if you live somewhere where the education system doesn’t have school sixth forms. Which many, many places in the UK do not. There seems to be disbelief that in some areas, all pupils of all abilities go to sixth form college, because schools don’t run past age 16. It’s really bizarre that you and other posters seem unable to comprehend this.

No disbelief from me. I spoke about my area, you speak about yours.
Hands up, I haven't come across areas where's there no school sixth forms. Clearly you have.

No one is 'dissing' college kids as being unacademic. I'm sure there's some highly academic kids in colleges. But I suspect that if you look at the country as a whole, there's a higher percentage of academic kids in sixth forms. Which is what the original post asked for views on.

We have a shortage of nurses in the UK. How come more a level students aren't choosing that as a career ?

I'm guessing because it's not particularly well paid plus stressful and poor working conditions (going by the nurses on MN talking about their job).

The government removed free tuition fees and bursaries a few years ago for NHS courses. There was a huge drop in numbers as a result.
They reintroduced the bursary but not the fees being paid for.

Interestingly, there has been a renewed interest in health related courses since the pandemic.