A levels or apprenticeship

[Whatnextcrazyworld]

DS has just finished Year 11 at a private school where he is predicted 7s and 8s in his GCSEs. He hasn't particularly enjoyed the last two years and has previously said that he's not keen on doing A levels. I've been open to looking at apprenticeships but am being told that it would be a big mistake not to do A levels. DS isn't interested in going to uni but has "accepted" that he will stay on for sixth form - I'm concerned that he's agreed to this for the wrong reasons. [We've discussed going to college for a change but he's clear that he'd rather stay at his current school if he does study A levels.]

My family are insistent that all employers will expect A levels and that they would think it very odd that a pupil from an independent school would not have A levels. It's very long time since my husband and I went to school and the world is totally different to when we started work.

If you have experience of going straight to an apprenticeship after GCSEs, can you clarify whether you can do to a Level 3 (which I understand is equivalent to two A levels) or are most of them Level 2 at age 16.

Have you discounted BTECs for a reason, or just because you don't really know about them?
BTECs are more vocational, but you can still go on to university for a related course if you do well enough. Getting top grades isn't easy.
They are run differently from A levels mainly on regular assignments, but still with some exams.
What kind of area are you/he considering?

A friend's DS did A levels then is doing a degree-apprenticeship in Quantity Surveying. So he will come out of it with a degree, savings not debts, and work experience.

I would say apprenticeship every day of the week.
There is little point of him doing A levels as they are predominantly for university admissions, if he has no intention of going.

An apprenticeship, he can do a level 3 alongside the work element whilst being paid, win win.

The trouble is that so few people don't go to university that you need a solid plan to develop him otherwise he will not gain as much ground as his peers over the next few years. If he's accepting staying for A Levels I would go with that but get really good careers advice now for the next stage.

To clarify I mean I know a lot of people don't go to uni, but not many with his type of grades.

Of course he should do a levels or BTECs if he's predicted 8s

Do a degree apprenticeship after if uni doesn't appeal

If he has decent gcse he can do a level 3, although in practice post 16 ones may do a level 2 first. A full level 3 can be equivalent to 3 A levels, but he would need to check that is what the apprenticeship offers. Otherwise he can do btec/nvq level 3 at college if his school sixth form does not offer it, or combine with an A level.

You all seem to know what he doesn’t want but does he have any idea what he does want to do.

If he could forget about the academic route for a moment what does he want to do in five/ten years time? Then work backwards. There may be several routes to where he wants to be. There may be a standard expectation. But it’s no good starting him on a plumbing apprenticeship to avoid a levels if he wants to end up as a doctor or a hairdresser.

@TeenMinusTests

A friend's DS did A levels then is doing a degree-apprenticeship in Quantity Surveying. So he will come out of it with a degree, savings not debts, and work experience.

My son isn't keen on BTECs and, at this stage, is clear he doesn't want to go to uni but we'll certainly keep options open. Thank you.

@NiceTwin

I would say apprenticeship every day of the week. There is little point of him doing A levels as they are predominantly for university admissions, if he has no intention of going.

An apprenticeship, he can do a level 3 alongside the work element whilst being paid, win win.

This is my opinion but not that of the rest of the family! I will continue to fight my corner.

GoWalk and Bryony: this is DH's view who also says that, at age 16, DS is too young to make his own decisions [I disgree!].

I went to a private school, got good gcse,a went on to do a level three in childcare, then decided I should have gone to uni, got into uni with my level three. Just because you don't do a levels doesn't mean that university is ruled out.

tbh I think it depends what apprenticeship. They are not all equal. A quality apprenticeship in engineering at Dyson leading to a technical job is not the same as an apprenticeship in Customer Service at a company just wanting cheap admin and then chuck you out at the end.

What sort of apprenticeship? What sort of career? Makes a huge difference.

As a PP said, you don't seem to be very clear on what your DS does want to do, as opposed to what he doesn't.

If you had come on saying 'DS really wants to do X apprenticeship' it would feel different from just 'not keen on A levels, doesn't want uni, not keen on BTECs'.

I did an apprenticeship and still went to university (without a-levels) 3 out of the 5 university's I was interested in accepted apprenticeship qualifications without a levels so depending on what apprenticeship they wanted to do, there is still scope to change their mind about uni later.

Well he's ruled the apprenticeship option out hasn't he given that he needs to start in September. The only apprenticeships that will be left now will be crappy GCSE level ones in customer service in restaurants.

If he capable, which he presumably is, then A Levels followed by a degree apprenticeship.

@LIZS

If he has decent gcse he can do a level 3, although in practice post 16 ones may do a level 2 first. A full level 3 can be equivalent to 3 A levels, but he would need to check that is what the apprenticeship offers. Otherwise he can do btec/nvq level 3 at college if his school sixth form does not offer it, or combine with an A level.

Yes, this is what I think but DH says that if DS pursued an apprenticeship in hospitality - I've seen a local one that starts at level 2 but the second year would be level 3 - he would be narrowing his options too early. DS has a part-time job in a pub and is loving it; I accept that he won't want to do that for the rest of his life but it's an industry that appeals to him whereas many others don't.

@Toasty280

I went to a private school, got good gcse,a went on to do a level three in childcare, then decided I should have gone to uni, got into uni with my level three. Just because you don't do a levels doesn't mean that university is ruled out.

Thank you for this and well done with all you've achieved. This confirms what I think - there are still options later on if he changes his mind about the industry he would do the apprenticeship in (hospitality).

DH says that if DS pursued an apprenticeship in hospitality - I've seen a local one that starts at level 2 but the second year would be level 3 - he would be narrowing his options too early

Completely agree with your dh!

@TeenMinusTests

tbh I think it depends what apprenticeship. They are not all equal. A quality apprenticeship in engineering at Dyson leading to a technical job is not the same as an apprenticeship in Customer Service at a company just wanting cheap admin and then chuck you out at the end.

This ^^

Level 3 is equivalent to 3 A levels and doesn’t rule out Uni at all

I didn’t go to Uni but started working for a large organisation at the bottom, by the time my friends had finished Uni, they were all starting work at levels either equivalent to or below what I had worked up in the company (unless they we’re doing something specific like teacher, doctor, nurse etc).

I think the key thing here is what exactly does he want to do? You haven’t answered that at all.

The apprenticeship DS and I are considering is with a leading spa hotel; he'd get a level 3 at the end of the first two years and I'm told that they want to retain the apprentice and see them progress, possibly up to level 6 or 7.

Unfortunately, DH says he's too young to know what he wants and "what would happen if they didn't offer him anything after the level 3 or if he no longer enjoys hospitality". My answer is that he would at least have the level 3 (equivalent to two A levels) which would be recognised by colleges, unis and other employers but DH disagrees.

You don't need qualifications in hospitality to work in hospitality.

A levels and part time hospitality work would be more flexible if he has a change of heart, either about uni or career.

However, you can only talk through the pros and cons. I think for 6th form it has to be his choice.

Hospitality apprenticeships are crap sorry. They're not worth the paper they're written on. They're just a way to get very cheap labour out of teenagers with poor academics.

What kind of apprenticeship are you thinking of?

www.gov.uk/apply-apprenticeship

You can find ones in your area using this link.

Engineering may be a good start for him. It will leave the option of university level qualifications open to him at a later time if he changed his mind.