A levels or apprenticeship

[Whatnextcrazyworld]

DS has just finished Year 11 at a private school where he is predicted 7s and 8s in his GCSEs. He hasn't particularly enjoyed the last two years and has previously said that he's not keen on doing A levels. I've been open to looking at apprenticeships but am being told that it would be a big mistake not to do A levels. DS isn't interested in going to uni but has "accepted" that he will stay on for sixth form - I'm concerned that he's agreed to this for the wrong reasons. [We've discussed going to college for a change but he's clear that he'd rather stay at his current school if he does study A levels.]

My family are insistent that all employers will expect A levels and that they would think it very odd that a pupil from an independent school would not have A levels. It's very long time since my husband and I went to school and the world is totally different to when we started work.

If you have experience of going straight to an apprenticeship after GCSEs, can you clarify whether you can do to a Level 3 (which I understand is equivalent to two A levels) or are most of them Level 2 at age 16.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Can't do BTECs, can't go to college! Honestly OP, you need to start getting on board with the A levels and look for a tutor if you suspect your ds will do badly and therefore disappoint your dh and you in some way when you've spent so much money. Sounds to me thst you are so worried about this you are considering him leaving at 16.

Bryony: You are clearly very opinionated and have reached conclusions about me that are incorrect.

I started this thread to hear, in particular, people's views on doing an apprenticeship straight after GCSEs. On balance, it is probably not a good idea so I am prepared to support my DH and DS with the A level route. I'm not going to repeat everything I've written - and there is plenty of personal information that I've deliberately not included - but for you to make some of the assumptions you've claimed is ridiculous! For example, I've not said "Can't do BTECs, can't go to college" - these are ideas I've raised over the lasts 18 months but have been discounted by DH and DS.

There are other unpleasant, uncalled for and inaccurate comments you've made which I'm not even going to bother answering.

@GlutenFreeGingerCake

My dd is doing A levels: Maths, Physics and computer science she wants to go to uni and study a STEM subject. Her friend is doing psychology, sociology and art and she is more like OPs ds and probably doesn't want to go to uni, she might look for an apprenticeship after A level or a job. I would say they are about the same intelligence but dd is much better at maths. The friend is having an easier time than dd, the courses dds friend chose are just not as intense and although she is still having to work hard, she doesn't feel that pressure to get A,A,A* or whatever that you need for a good uni. So I think if your DS does decide to say on for A levels picking courses he is interested in and are maybe not the most intense will make A levels more bearable.

Thank you. We will re-visit the subjects on offer. Good luck to your DD!

@jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey

Dd1 did A level and uni Dd2 did apprenticeship

Both enjoyed their choice
Both now earn the same

That's good to know. And, whilst of course it's important to us that DS doesn't limit his career opportunities for later on, his mental well-being and happiness matter hugely as well.

UPDATE

DS has decided to stay on for sixth form and take the 3 A levels he selected. However, we'll continue to explore the possibility of an apprenticeship for 2 years' time and he will hopefully receive some useful guidance and support from the careers people at his school.

I'm fully on board with this because he has made the decision. Both DH and I will encourage him for the duration of the courses.

Thank you again for sharing your experiences and making helpful and insightful suggestions.

Hi op, hopefully he will enjoy his A level choices. I would advise tho that he thinks v carefully about them - you implied in a previous postage had chosen two of them mainly because he didn't do them (and thus dislike them) at GCSE. If I misunderstood, apologies.

I would counsel that psychology is not easy (well, no A level is) and involves a fair bit of science and maths - he's clearly bright enough for that but if he really doesn't like those subjects psych may not be the best choice. Similarly, I believe gov/pol can be rather dry, again, best taken due to enthusiasm for it rather than as a "well at least it's not French/chemistry/Eng lit" way. Anyway, just worth thinking about. Again, sorry if I have misconstrued.

Wise words from @clary. DD's school had a lot of students drop out of psychology because it wasn't what they expected. This is always the danger with untried subjects. Psychology has a very heavy workload, and you have to memorise loads of case studies by people with difficult to spell and unpronounceable names.

Yes psychology has the most dissatisfied student group at dds school.

I wonder how many people would choose the same A Level subjects again if they could go back and do it again.

clary Thank you - I'll bear that in mind. I think we now need to get back into the swing of a normal school term and new timetable/environment. He'll continue with his work in the pub and will hopefully get stuck in to the A level subjects. As for the science side of Psychology, I'm hoping he won't object as it'll be so different to GCSE sciences.

I just asked dd about this as one of her best friends did psychology and she says it was lots of maths, and formulas to learn and info about how the brain works. She says a lot of people say it's not what they thought.

Politics is good,she says, if he is interested in the news and how the political world in the UK and the US works so if that's him then it's a good choice.

DD only did psychology for a year. She started with 4 A level subjects, but hated it so much she dropped it after AS levels. The first year was very boring. She found it unchallenging and dull, and extremely time consuming. She doesn't remember doing much in the way of maths and formulas, but that might have come in the second year.

They cover a bit of biology in psychology, but as DD was taking A level biology she found it quite easy.

RampantIvy: It'll be interesting to see what DS makes of it once the new term starts. I've a sneaking suspicion he may not enjoy it too much. However, dropping it would be an issue as he's only doing 3 subjects to start with - my understanding is that most universities want three good grades rather than 4 mediocre ones so your DD is probably wise to have dropped a subject she doesn't enjoy.

Many kids, especially at private schools, start year 12 with four then drop one in the New Year. So ultimately they do sit the best three, sometimes with an epq.

Dds high performing private school say only 3 and an epq. You can take a fourth for 2 weeks only!

TBH I was surprised that DD's school started her off with 4 subjects, but she had performed very well at GCSE. With hindsight I'm glad that she did because she really, really wanted to study psychology, but soon found it so desperately dull and time intensive. At least she had the luxury of dropping it, unlike the students who had only started with three.

Most students at her school took 3 A levels.

RampantIvy It sounds as if it worked out well for your DD. I wonder what she found dull about the subject?

I just don't think it was was she expected. The first year was spent mainly learning about Social influence, Memory, Attachment, Approaches in Psychology, Psychopathology and Research methods.

Looking at the spec it looks like all the interesting stuff was in the second year of A level. Basically, AS psychology was a massive memory test because you have to learn and remember loads of case studies as well as remember the content.

DD found it very dull and unchallenging, and extremely time consuming compared to her other subjects (biology, chemistry and geography).

This is the AQA A level spec for psychology:

www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/psychology/as-and-a-level/psychology-7181-7182/specification-at-a-glance

I didn't want to put your DS off, but just to manage his expectations. Students who take untried subjects at A level sometimes become unstuck.

I’ll add that my eldest really didn’t like psychology. He found it very boring and like pulling teeth. The ones who seemed most enthused did it with biology.
I’m glad your son decided to stay but if he finds that he really doesn’t want to be doing A levels once he starts then really do revisit the level 3 BTEC option, it really is such a good alternative for smart kids who don’t want to do A levels and are more practical.

My DS is doing A levels at the moment - if he had any idea what he wanted to do then he would have done a vocational course at college, but he doesn't, so he didn't!

We figured A levels were more generic and easier to build from in the future, rather than a (eg) BTEC in Sports.

RampantIvy Thank you so much for clarifying. I think I should sit down with him and look very carefully at the syllabus ...

Traviel My DS is not doing biology [he couldn't wait to drop all three sciences] so I'm beginning to wonder if psychology is the best choice for him. Unfortunately his school doesn't offer BTEC (and are a bit snooty about them - grrr) and DS doesn't want to move to another school or college so it's important he makes the right choices now which is why the feedback I've received on this thread is so useful!

Tattley That's pretty much the conclusion DS has come to. Watch this space as to where he ends up in 2 years time!

Will he have a mature discussion with you as to why not Business Studies? An understanding of business would be very useful in hospitality where those that stick it out can get into management quite young.

My DS is not doing biology [he couldn't wait to drop all three sciences] so I'm beginning to wonder if psychology is the best choice for him

I don't think not doing biology will hold him back. Loads of students in DD's psychology group didn't take biology, and still did well.

The key for A level success is to choose the subjects you enjoy the most. Also does his school offer the option to change subject after a couple of weeks, and before it is too late to catch up with his new choice?

Maybe it is a good idea to look at the spec of all the A level possibilities, and make sure you look at the correct exam board because there are often different topics covered in each subject.

Good luck with whatever he chooses.

I agree with you @TeenMinusTests that Business A level (they have dropped the studies from the name now) would be very useful.
It could perhaps be the case that the sixth form doesn't offer it though.
There are a lot of level 3 apprenticeships in business / management that are not sector specific that may suit OPs son post A levels.
dds sixth form (and school) ran taster sessions for new subjects that were not offered at GCSE. This was very useful in helping her to decide what options to choose.

catndog Fortunately DS's school does offer Business. They also did a taster session but he didn't attend that one. However, we've got the school's blurb about it and I'm sure could contact the teacher if he wants to consider it.

Sorry I've not read the full thread but...
Can you unpack why your ds doesn't want to do a btec? Is it just the perception that it's not "good enough"? (I ask this because my ds - same age - and his friends use "btec" as slang for substandard. I shut them down when I hear it but apparently "everyone" says it ). I have 3 friends with children currently doing BTECs (one just finished level 2 in a year, previously very disengaged with education, now going on to level 3 and looking forward to it; the others are doing level 3 from the start). None of them would have been incapable of A levels (though their grades were lower than your ds's) but it would have been a huge step up and one they would have struggled with.
My DH is a teacher and says the difference between GCSEs and A levels can't be over estimated.
My dd just did politics A level (alongside 2 other heavy essay subjects) and said it was the one she found hardest work - the essays are complex and detailed. People who chose it because it wasn't a GCSE subject struggled a lot more than those who actually were interested in it for its own sake. Psychology too is very scientific - if he doesn't like biology he might not enjoy psychology..
Sorry I don't mean to sound negative. Your ds is clearly capable of A levels but a BTEC might be so much better for him. If he doesn't get stuck in to A levels then he will struggle to get good grades - and then will any more doors be open to him? Whereas btecs seem more fluid and have more options...