A levels or apprenticeship

[Whatnextcrazyworld]

DS has just finished Year 11 at a private school where he is predicted 7s and 8s in his GCSEs. He hasn't particularly enjoyed the last two years and has previously said that he's not keen on doing A levels. I've been open to looking at apprenticeships but am being told that it would be a big mistake not to do A levels. DS isn't interested in going to uni but has "accepted" that he will stay on for sixth form - I'm concerned that he's agreed to this for the wrong reasons. [We've discussed going to college for a change but he's clear that he'd rather stay at his current school if he does study A levels.]

My family are insistent that all employers will expect A levels and that they would think it very odd that a pupil from an independent school would not have A levels. It's very long time since my husband and I went to school and the world is totally different to when we started work.

If you have experience of going straight to an apprenticeship after GCSEs, can you clarify whether you can do to a Level 3 (which I understand is equivalent to two A levels) or are most of them Level 2 at age 16.

@Whatnextcrazyworld

The apprenticeship DS and I are considering is with a leading spa hotel; he'd get a level 3 at the end of the first two years and I'm told that they want to retain the apprentice and see them progress, possibly up to level 6 or 7.

Unfortunately, DH says he's too young to know what he wants and "what would happen if they didn't offer him anything after the level 3 or if he no longer enjoys hospitality". My answer is that he would at least have the level 3 (equivalent to two A levels) which would be recognised by colleges, unis and other employers but DH disagrees.

Your dh is right.

He's a bright boy! Why limit himself?

@titchy

Well he's ruled the apprenticeship option out hasn't he given that he needs to start in September. The only apprenticeships that will be left now will be crappy GCSE level ones in customer service in restaurants.

If he capable, which he presumably is, then A Levels followed by a degree apprenticeship.

Interestingly, DH says he should do A levels and could then go into an apprenticeship. This is what DS says he'll accept ... but I'm not looking forward to two more years at school when he doesn't really want to be there!

He wouldn't get into a RG uni (if that matters) with a level 3 apprenticeship from a hotel. Unless he was going to study a degree in Hospitality

I'm not convinced a L3 done in a year would be equivalent to 2 A levels or recognised widely enough for uni - certainly not for anything other than a hospitality degree. I suspect he'd have to go back to college and do an Access course if he wanted to go.

Your DH is right. He's too young and inexperienced to commit to this. He's got his first job, it's sociable and he's enjoying it and thinks it's be a laugh to do it permanently.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

What kind of apprenticeship are you thinking of?

www.gov.uk/apply-apprenticeship

You can find ones in your area using this link.

Engineering may be a good start for him. It will leave the option of university level qualifications open to him at a later time if he changed his mind.

Thank you. We'll take another look but he's not interested in engineering at the moment.

Yes A levels and then apprenticeship fine.

I did an apprenticeship when I left school then, when I was 22, I went to uni. I have no a levels but managed to get on to a vocational degree course on the back of the apprenticeship.

The apprenticeship DS and I are considering is with a leading spa hotel; he'd get a level 3 at the end of the first two years and I'm told that they want to retain the apprentice and see them progress, possibly up to level 6 or 7.

That doesn't sound so bad.

Something he wants to do is better than being pushed into something he doesn't then not working / dropping out. He can always return to academics later.

(I can see your DH being disappointed though. You don't generally pay for private school expecting your DC to 'drop out' of the academic route at 16. Maybe reassure him there are routes back in if your DS changes his mind later.)

Interestingly, DH says he should do A levels and could then go into an apprenticeship. This is what DS says he'll accept ... but I'm not looking forward to two more years at school when he doesn't really want to be there!

Good. Do this if he'll accept that as an option. Why do you have to be looking forward to what he does - what difference does that make

He can still work in the pub.

Ds1 was adamant that he was going straight to work. I wanted him to go to college/ uni. However I can't/ wont force my choices on him.
He went for an apprenticeship and it was hugely useful. He is 25 and the company are putting him through his degree. He us extremely well paid for our area and is doing well.
Ds2 was very academic and had always talked about uni. He started his A levels and I noticed a quick decline in his personality and state of mind. We gave him the option to quit. It was like a weight had been lifted. He too got an apprenticeship and it was the absolute making of him.

Your DH is right. He's too young and inexperienced to commit to this. He's got his first job, it's sociable and he's enjoying it and thinks it's be a laugh to do it permanently

This. And I'm normally the first one in here to say people shouldn't always follow the Russell group path if it's not for them!

@titchy

I'm not convinced a L3 done in a year would be equivalent to 2 A levels or recognised widely enough for uni - certainly not for anything other than a hospitality degree. I suspect he'd have to go back to college and do an Access course if he wanted to go.

Your DH is right. He's too young and inexperienced to commit to this. He's got his first job, it's sociable and he's enjoying it and thinks it's be a laugh to do it permanently.

I hear you and you echo exactly what my DH says! You could well be right and I expect he's going to end up back at school but I feel for him because he believes he knows himself, his abilities and interests.

I said hospitality apprenticeships can be crap at a school event, and got bollocked by the food science dept. But some absolutely are crap. But I guess it’s how the industry does it … which apprenticeship standard are they offering? What’s the qualification and the awarding body ?

What about T levels ? Done at college, level 3 (so equivalent to A levels) but with extended work experience included. Could do that with a part-time job at the spa ?

My part-time job when I was 16 offered me the world if I went full time. Of course they did. They would have got a really hardworking employee who loved her job. But if would have been a shit decision for me in the long run. And I could see that , despite the temptation.

He doesn't have to give up his interests. He can work in the pub during the holidays and while he's at school

If he picked the 'right' A levels he could still feel he was working towards a hospitality career - would that help?
e.g.
Business
A language

Yes, also check what kind of Level 3 - certificate, Diploma, Extended Diploma? (1, 2, 3 A level equivalent respectively).

@notacooldad

Ds1 was adamant that he was going straight to work. I wanted him to go to college/ uni. However I can't/ wont force my choices on him. He went for an apprenticeship and it was hugely useful. He is 25 and the company are putting him through his degree. He us extremely well paid for our area and is doing well. Ds2 was very academic and had always talked about uni. He started his A levels and I noticed a quick decline in his personality and state of mind. We gave him the option to quit. It was like a weight had been lifted. He too got an apprenticeship and it was the absolute making of him.

It's these sort of experiences - and successes - that my DH just won't accept. Personally, I think "good for them" and I fully understand that the normal route, particularly in private schools, of doing A levels is not for every pupil.

Do you mind telling me what type of apprenticeships your sons are doing please?

@TeenMinusTests

The apprenticeship DS and I are considering is with a leading spa hotel; he'd get a level 3 at the end of the first two years and I'm told that they want to retain the apprentice and see them progress, possibly up to level 6 or 7.

That doesn't sound so bad.

Something he wants to do is better than being pushed into something he doesn't then not working / dropping out. He can always return to academics later.

(I can see your DH being disappointed though. You don't generally pay for private school expecting your DC to 'drop out' of the academic route at 16. Maybe reassure him there are routes back in if your DS changes his mind later.)

Thank you. DH refuses to be reassured about anything other than the A level route ... even though we are all in agreement that uni is probably not going to be the next step for DS.

I don't know a single teen who dropped out of A levels unless they had a MH issue. Most local apprenticeships at 16+ are a load of shite.

I can't believe you are even considering this.

He's a clever boy! If he's not a hard worker then swerve traditional subjects and do business, PE/Food tech and one other (a language would be great he could then work abroad in hospitality)

Just to add, apparently research shows working more than 12 hours per week does affect your A level grades. Something to bear in mind …

In non selective state schools, 6th forms tend to be very different from the lower school (if they only offer A levels), because the cohort of pupils change so much. Not sure whether that would be true at an independent…

I don't know a single teen who dropped out of A levels unless they had a MH issue.
Mine did and he didn't have MH issues. Best thing he did. It wasnt for him.

@TeenMinusTests

If he picked the 'right' A levels he could still feel he was working towards a hospitality career - would that help? e.g. Business A language

Yes, also check what kind of Level 3 - certificate, Diploma, Extended Diploma? (1, 2, 3 A level equivalent respectively).

The A levels he has selected are Religion & Philosophy (that he did at GCSE), Politics and Psychology and he is aware that there will be a lot of essay writing. He's not selected them because he's passionate about them but because he didn't want to continue with any other of his GCSE subjects so only had a few to choose from - the others being Business and Economics which he definitely doesn't want to do.

@notacooldad

I don't know a single teen who dropped out of A levels unless they had a MH issue. Mine did and he didn't have MH issues. Best thing he did. It wasnt for him.

That's great if he's now doing well

I've nursed two non academic kids through A levels and they are both bloody glad they did them, so can see it from the other side.

They are interesting A levels. Psychology is really maths based and a science. RE deonds how it's taught. Can be good. One of mine got an A star in it but she was the academic one and worked very hard. Non academic got a C.

All three will be very hard work.

@DaftVader42

Just to add, apparently research shows working more than 12 hours per week does affect your A level grades. Something to bear in mind …

In non selective state schools, 6th forms tend to be very different from the lower school (if they only offer A levels), because the cohort of pupils change so much. Not sure whether that would be true at an independent…

Thank you for that.

At his school only a handful from his cohort are moving to other schools or colleges for A levels. At the same time the school is accepting a significant number from other schools so the year group will end up being bigger than it was for the previous 5 years - although I don't imagine it really matters. I'm sure the school has good/excellent teachers at A level but it still concerns me that he doesn't really want to be there any more.