A levels or apprenticeship

[Whatnextcrazyworld]

DS has just finished Year 11 at a private school where he is predicted 7s and 8s in his GCSEs. He hasn't particularly enjoyed the last two years and has previously said that he's not keen on doing A levels. I've been open to looking at apprenticeships but am being told that it would be a big mistake not to do A levels. DS isn't interested in going to uni but has "accepted" that he will stay on for sixth form - I'm concerned that he's agreed to this for the wrong reasons. [We've discussed going to college for a change but he's clear that he'd rather stay at his current school if he does study A levels.]

My family are insistent that all employers will expect A levels and that they would think it very odd that a pupil from an independent school would not have A levels. It's very long time since my husband and I went to school and the world is totally different to when we started work.

If you have experience of going straight to an apprenticeship after GCSEs, can you clarify whether you can do to a Level 3 (which I understand is equivalent to two A levels) or are most of them Level 2 at age 16.

*Chill" Apologies for the slow reply.

Sadly - and wrongly - DS has believed the perception [fed by the school, not me] that BTECs "don't count" as much as A levels. Equally disappointingly, I don't think DH would accept that route either.

I hear what you say about the big step up from GCSEs to A levels and fear that DS is going to feel overwhelmed by it all. We've sat down this week and had a good look at the course contents for Psychology and he's decided to try to change to Economics.

I am very concerned that he is going the sixth form route because that's what's expected of him by DH and school. He has expressed very clearly, on numerous occasions, that he doesn't want to do A levels but has concluded that, in his words, he has "just got to suck it up".

I've not said much about his younger years but his personality and history tell me that he struggles with life at the best of times and it really worries me how he will cope. Whilst I accept that entering a level 2/3 apprenticeship in hospitality at this stage could limit his opportunities for the future, I'd rather he was happy and healthy.

I plan to talk to his school before the start of term to let them know that we all (DH, DS and I) agree that he will not be going to uni and that we don't want him pressured to change his mind; at the same time we expect the careers people to work with him to formulate a plan for after sixth form and hopefully set him on the right path for him.

I plan to talk to his school before the start of term to let them know that we all (DH, DS and I) agree that he will not be going to uni

That seems an extraordinary thing to do! At least wait until the beginning of year 13!

Bryony It may seem extraordinary to you know very little about the reasons why.

You seem to get a kick out of trying to belittle me. Enjoy your weekend.

Well so-rry! I only know what you've written here.

I think it's absurd thst parents would go into a school at the beginning of year 12 and tell them not to encourage university! He might change his mind in a year!

Where I worked until last year, we had former apprentices who went on to do degrees after completing their apprenticeship. One in Engineering, one in Business Studies.
The Engineering one was done via day-release and was fully funded by the employer. The other one was via the OU, and she preferred to fund it herself and do it all in her own time, although we would have been prepared to make a financial contribution. The right apprenticeship can be a fantastic way to start a career.

A couple of other Business admin apprentices also left to take up college courses: one to become a teacher, one to become a sports coach. It can open all sorts of doors if you choose carefully.

ICouldHave Thank you. This sort of thing would suit DS much more than uni so we'll keep researching the possibilities while he studies over the next two years.

Yes to apprenticeships! You can even do degree level ones once he has finished his level 3 so he wouldn't need to go to uni but can still get a degree.

MissCruella Do you have experience of doing one? I sense that Engineering apprenticeships are well regarded but do you know which other industries run highly valued ones? [I realise it partly depends on the employer, of course.]

@Whatnextcrazyworld
Dh did a business admin apprenticeship (a good few years ago now) whilst also studying finance qualifications (paid for by employers), once we had finished the level 3, he began a degree level apprenticeship, and now earns 6 figures in a highly regarded finance role, with a different employer. I would say the majority of apprenticeships are well regarded, but wouldn't recommend ones such as customer service (telemarketing) or food ones (fast food).

@Whatnextcrazyworld

MissCruella Do you have experience of doing one? I sense that Engineering apprenticeships are well regarded but do you know which other industries run highly valued ones? [I realise it partly depends on the employer, of course.]

DS is about to start a p/t apprenticeship agree with a pharmaceutical company which is chemistry based. He has worked there 3 years and doesnt have a chemistry A level, but the company sets the requirements not the university.

sadly - and wrongly - DS has believed the perception [fed by the school, not me] that BTECs "don't count" as much as A levels. Equally disappointingly, I don't think DH would accept that route either.

Agree with you My DD has just finished her degree at a Russell Group with a Btec rather than A levels. Her 3 distinction stars were worth 168 ucas points same as 3 A*

MissCruella That is so helpful - thank you. My DS isn't interested in engineering but I think finance would be a distinct possibility if he loses interest in hospitality (that my DH is trying to steer him away from, although I think it would suit him). Well done to your DH!

Slightly similar situation minus ds 1 not having stellar grades at gcse and A'level predictions are ok but not amazing (BC and D). He does however have however dyslexia which is a bit of a mitigating circumstance.
Our experience re apprenticeships so far isn't amazing. Ds1 was adamant he did not want to go to uni. Said the prospect of being stuck in a classroom for another 3-4 years was awful. Against my better judgement I went along with him. He has applied for quite a few level 3 and 4 apprenticeships. Excellent CV and covering letter, no issues with dodgy spelling etc, sounds articulate and enthusiastic. So far he's heard nothing. The degree apprenticeships are eye wateringly competitive, sadly very few A'level equivalent ones available in our area so he's actually now applying for post gcse ones when he has 10 decent gcses and 2 hopefully not too bad A levels. The big well known companies have the pick of the bunch. Some of the companies offering the apprenticeships on paper at least, don't have good reviews, one in particular won't match you with a particular post if you live more than 45 mins away from it. I feel pretty disillusioned with the whole thing. I don't think the covid issue has helped and suspect that there is now more competition for places from people who traditionally wouldn't dream of applying for an apprenticeship, those who maybe are on furlough who would like a complete career change. Personally unless you have top drawer grades and live in the south east where I suspect opportunities are more plentiful, I'd stay clear.

Effy That must be so disheartening for your DS. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and it helps put things in perspective for me. One of my concerns is that there may well be greater competition for apprenticeships after A levels than now after DS's GCSEs, especially as more people are questioning the uni route.

I wish your DS all the best whatever results turn up tomorrow. [And I know it's not any easier for you waiting to hear and wondering "what if". Stay strong !]

Bruffin That's fantastic! And I know chemistry is not an easy subject so your DS is clearly very capable.

And your DD has also done brilliantly. Thank you for your encouragement.

Yes I agree that I wouldn't have the conversation re uni with the school as they may not foucs on how he is doing! There isn't really any need to have that conversation until they ask for his UCAS form to be submitted and at that stage he can say he is considering what to do as after he gets grades he may indeed change his mind and want to apply.

Also sixth form is generally different (more freedom) than up to y11 so many find they re-engage with learning. Again uni is different to 6th form. Once his peers start discussing what they want to do going forward he too may find he has changed his mind.

I think the A levels are the way forward to leave as many options open as possible.

He may want to look at the PwC/Deloittes degree apprenticeships (not just for accountants!!)

Season You could be right that he'll change his mind but I very much doubt it as he's not enjoyed studying and says he wants to get out, be independent and earn his own living etc. And I absolutely don't want him changing his mind because "all his friends" are opting for the uni route.

It does now looks as if he'll stay on for sixth form but we'll keep a close eye on sensible alternatives for two years' time that will enable him to live a happy and rewarding life. Thank you for highlighting the PWC/Deloittes apprenticeships - we'll be looking into that, along with a number of others.

As for the school potentially not focusing on him, I sincerely hope that isn't the case after all the claims they make about treating each student as an individual, offering equal support to pupils no matter what their strengths and so on. They've known him for five years, are aware of significant difficulties he's had in his childhood (details of which I really don't want to share here) and they shouldn't be surprised by the route he's wanting to go.

I can share my experience of apprenticeships after A level - my DS did an Extended BTEC and an A level. He didn't want to go to Uni - just wanted to get working so an apprenticeship seemed like a perfect fit for him. He applied for loads of apprenticeships at all levels, he was happy to start at the bottom and work up. Most of them got cancelled last year because of the pandemic but there were two that carried on through and the process was the most intense thing I've ever witnessed. Both apprenticeships had online assessments, formal interviews, open days, DBS checks, health and eye tests and each time people were getting whittled away. There were at least five rounds for each apprenticeship - it was like X factor! BUT he got offered a level 3 apprenticeship with a major UK company with a crappy wage (or so we thought) which he accepted. Turns out though that the company recruit and then choose the best people and then choose their pathway so he's actually on a degree apprenticeship with a wage that's 10K more than initially advertised. He's been there a year now - and they told the 36 apprentices they'd picked they they had been chosen from nearly 8000 applications - which is insane. Apprenticeships are a minefield though and you really need so do the work to find one. They start advertising about October so my advice is to make a list of companies you'd like to work for and send emails to find out when they open their applications as it's different for every company. Sixth forms focus on Uni applications as it's beneficial for their data so it really is down to you to find what you need to do. Choosing an apprenticeship pathway is the harder option than Uni tbh, nothing is signposted, no-one is going to help you, there's no fall back if you don't get offered a job as this is the hard reality of the world of work. Sorry for the ramble but I hope it helps. My DS fell on his feet - and was bloody lucky - I hope it works out for your DS.

@Whatnextcrazyworld

Season You could be right that he'll change his mind but I very much doubt it as he's not enjoyed studying and says he wants to get out, be independent and earn his own living etc. And I absolutely don't want him changing his mind because "all his friends" are opting for the uni route.

It does now looks as if he'll stay on for sixth form but we'll keep a close eye on sensible alternatives for two years' time that will enable him to live a happy and rewarding life. Thank you for highlighting the PWC/Deloittes apprenticeships - we'll be looking into that, along with a number of others.

As for the school potentially not focusing on him, I sincerely hope that isn't the case after all the claims they make about treating each student as an individual, offering equal support to pupils no matter what their strengths and so on. They've known him for five years, are aware of significant difficulties he's had in his childhood (details of which I really don't want to share here) and they shouldn't be surprised by the route he's wanting to go.

I didn't mean that he would change his mind to copy what his friends were doing but just that those conversations may spark a genuine interest from him.

My son has done work experience at PWC and after they asked whether he would consider going to them post A level. He said he wanted to go to uni and they did say they thought that may be the case but have said they will keep his details when applying for internships.

If your son gets on work experience (look at their websites for when they take applications because it is possibly from September. In fact he did October half term y12 for Deloitte so I suspect they may be open now. They talk to then not only about the graduate trainee options but the various apprenticeships. I think EY may do a post 16 one.

OP
There is an article todays mail about apprenticeships v uni.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9876223/How-apprenticeships-leave-young-people-52-732-better-three-years.html

I've never seen an apprenticeship which isn't finance or engineering based. If your skill is in humanities there is nothing. Of course therefore apprentices earn more than arts grads from low ranking polys.

@HappySonHappyMum

I can share my experience of apprenticeships after A level - my DS did an Extended BTEC and an A level. He didn't want to go to Uni - just wanted to get working so an apprenticeship seemed like a perfect fit for him. He applied for loads of apprenticeships at all levels, he was happy to start at the bottom and work up. Most of them got cancelled last year because of the pandemic but there were two that carried on through and the process was the most intense thing I've ever witnessed. Both apprenticeships had online assessments, formal interviews, open days, DBS checks, health and eye tests and each time people were getting whittled away. There were at least five rounds for each apprenticeship - it was like X factor! BUT he got offered a level 3 apprenticeship with a major UK company with a crappy wage (or so we thought) which he accepted. Turns out though that the company recruit and then choose the best people and then choose their pathway so he's actually on a degree apprenticeship with a wage that's 10K more than initially advertised. He's been there a year now - and they told the 36 apprentices they'd picked they they had been chosen from nearly 8000 applications - which is insane. Apprenticeships are a minefield though and you really need so do the work to find one. They start advertising about October so my advice is to make a list of companies you'd like to work for and send emails to find out when they open their applications as it's different for every company. Sixth forms focus on Uni applications as it's beneficial for their data so it really is down to you to find what you need to do. Choosing an apprenticeship pathway is the harder option than Uni tbh, nothing is signposted, no-one is going to help you, there's no fall back if you don't get offered a job as this is the hard reality of the world of work. Sorry for the ramble but I hope it helps. My DS fell on his feet - and was bloody lucky - I hope it works out for your DS.

HappySon THIS is just the sort of information I've been looking for! Thank you so much - very insightful and helpful. Your DS has done amazingly well and it's great to read that there are indeed some fabulous opportunities out there, even if competition is extremely tough. I'd rather go in with our eyes open and the "heads up" you've provided is extremely valuable.

[quote notacooldad]OP
There is an article todays mail about apprenticeships v uni.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9876223/How-apprenticeships-leave-young-people-52-732-better-three-years.html[/quote]
notacooldad Yes, it's sobering reading, isn't it! My DS really wants to get out an earn a living - he is clear that he doesn't want the "uni experience", debt ... and, dare I say, the studying. If he's accepted as an apprentice in a decent organisation, I'm sure he'll be much more willing to gain qualifications because he'll be earning a living at the same time.

SeasonFinale Thank you and yes, I understand what you are saying, but DS is very clear on not wanting to go to uni. But I'll keep an open mind!

We will start researching work experience opportunities this week.

@Whatnextcrazyworld Happy to help - I had absolutely no experience of apprenticeships myself as I went to Uni many moons ago - so it was a steep learning curve that took many months to navigate - the whole process from application to offer took 6 months so it was a slow burn. But it was so worth it as I've never seen my DS so happy with the choice he made