My sisters children are going to be removed

[Namechange543]

Name changed for this but hoping someone can offer some advice.

My sisters children are going to be removed, there is a court hearing on Tuesday to decide this but with the overwhelming evidence against her and the fact they’ve been on a child protection plan for so long with her making no positive steps it’s only going to go one way.

The social worker tells me once the judge has made a decision they will speak to family about placements for them. I really want to help but the problem is she has 3 children and I already have 2 of my own so I can’t take them all. I have a 4 bed house so couldn’t fit them even if I could cope with 5 children.

Will they want them to stay together or will they split them to keep them with family? And if they do split them how on earth do you decide which 1 you take?

It’s such a nightmare. My mum could take 1 and I could take 1 but then do we leave the 1 not chosen to go into foster care. How damaging would that be! I’ve cried so much this week with the guilt that I can’t help them all.

Is there any kind of care where your sister & dc could all go in a unit with supervision where the children could get therapy & your sister could be taught how to be a good mum? She needs something like the Freedom plan, learning how to care for damaged children & how she has allowed them to suffer the damage, she may be damaged herself & need help to untangle the web of abuse.

So the absolute best scenario would be that all 3 are placed independently with 3 different families and you keep weekly contact with them all. Unless your 2 DC felt you could take the 5 year ls but I would be guided by them. None should go to your mum.

Wouldn't that be nice, @Nat6999?

Not going to happen, even if it would work.

I wouldn't be guided by your dc OP, they have no idea what they could be signing up to.
We always say that dc shouldn't be able to make a decision about getting a pet because they won't be doing the work.
A traumatized child will need to be the focus of your attention for years.
In reality your dc may not actually like the reality of this.

Poor kids. I can't see how your mum is suitable at all though.

Nits- I don't think it's the kind of situation here where a family vote is going to be viable. It's a decision that's going to be made after the social workers have evaluated everything, not a simple aye or nay from Namechange543. The fact that the OP has her own children makes it highly unlikely from a safeguarding point of view that it's even on the table as an option, no matter how strapped for cash or trained fosterers the local authority is.

Could you take two children and your Mum one? It is asking a lot but could e see them go into care? Could you have an extension? I think sometimes LA will help with interest free loan if it means a child can stay with relatives.

I am a foster carer and I would say if children can be with family it is best for them.

If they go into care they may still not stay together as very few carers have room to accommodate three children. If young SS will let 2 share a room if decent sized. If teens SS would want them in own rooms.

@caringcarer

Could you take two children and your Mum one? It is asking a lot but could e see them go into care? Could you have an extension? I think sometimes LA will help with interest free loan if it means a child can stay with relatives.

I am a foster carer and I would say if children can be with family it is best for them.

To be a foster carer is a wonderful and selfless act and you must have made a difference to your foster children’s lives. However, and I say this with the greatest respect, I suspect you have never fostered children who have been badly damaged and traumatised as these children have. If you had you would know that for OP to foster these children would be wholly inappropriate and even dangerous. Sadly, they need more than the love OP would give them. They need foster carers with extensive experience in looking after children with significant behavioural difficulties. I suspect from what OP has said that in addition, they each need to be the only child in the foster carer’s household.

@caringcarer

Could you take two children and your Mum one? It is asking a lot but could e see them go into care? Could you have an extension? I think sometimes LA will help with interest free loan if it means a child can stay with relatives.

I am a foster carer and I would say if children can be with family it is best for them.

What about the children then forced to live with their violent nephews? What about the children who under your plan are now at risk of being sexually abused?

After reading update from op I can say I am experienced foster carer with quality training. I took 1 child who was very aggressive at 5 had punched teachers and social workers as well as several children at school. I have had him from 5 years old. He is now 13 and the nicest boy you could wish to meet. He is polite, kind and helpful. It took almost 3 years before we saw much improvement. I have DH who is very patient and gives DFS loads of attention. I also have 2 adult sons living at home who also take dogs to cinema McDonald's. It took 4 adults to calm him down. I don't think any foster carer could take 3 all needing intensive individual attention. I think their best option would be foster care with good placements who can devote huge amounts of care and attention to try to overcome their poor start in life and a supportive and loving Auntie and Gran who visit them and take them out, maybe separately.

ihavebeenthroughthis the videos from Beacon House are amazing. Thank you.

Op

I went into long term foster care when I was 13. My sibling went to live with our Dad (we'd been living with our Mum until then) and I went into care. I have a disability and Dad didn't feel able to manage both of us, my additional needs, a demanding full time job and everything else. He wasn't considered a risk so I used to stay with them for occasional weekends (usually once every 4-6 weeks) from my foster placement. Although I didn't live with them I still felt part of a family (we regularly spoke on the phone as well) and it worked out for the best long term. We all live in different places now but we're close a family despite having been separated by circumstances.

It might be for the best if your DN's go into foster care initially until SS can assess them and decide what kind of placement/s and support they need. It doesn't mean they can't potentially live with you at some point in the future. If that's what you want, they want and SS agree it's in there best interests. That way it gives you (and your family) time to seriously consider what might be involved with taking them into your home.

Please don't feel guilty or blame yourself though if you don't feel that you can look after them full time. It's a huge commitment for you and our birth children. You sound like a great Auntie already and you can still see them, spend time with and support them if they live in care.

Op my heart goes out to you and your nephews. What an awful situation

@DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong had great advice I think. You clearly have a lot of love for these children. Yes they need that but they also need specialist care.

Hi OP, I thought I would post from the other side, myself and my 2 youngest sisters all got taken into care, I was 13, sisters 9 and 7. Again similar story, we should of been taken away years before we actually did, drug addict mother, lots of abuse, physical, mental and sexually abused. We were very feral and we never went to school etc. In the first instance we were separated, but after around 8 months they slowly placed them both with me, my foster careers decided to take all 3 of us on. It was difficult at first as we soon slipped back into our old ways, me being the eldest and trying to parent them etc, but we had excellent foster carers who made a massive difference to our lives, the younger ones had councilling etc, for me I was shown a different way of life and I grabbed it with both hands and didn't look back. Statistically at 13, I was passed the age of being able to be "saved" but this didn't stop me, I turned my life around, started going to school and in the end I went to uni and got myself a law degree. I have 2 children myself and have a good job, nice house and nice car etc. Kids even after being abused etc are very adaptable and some if given the opportunity would thrive. By comparison my youngest sister, the one who was saved earlier isn't in the best state MH wise, she has a partner and is a full time carer to her first born who is disabled, she is very clever and has the potential to go the full way, but didn't, that's her choice and that's fine also, she is a great mother and she in her own way has broken the cycle. My middle sister has 6 children and works part time, things aren't perfect but she in her own way too has broken the cycle. We are all better parents than or mother was and we all put his down to our foster carers, showing us the right way to live. I'm still in contact with my foster carers and they are referred to as mum and dad and grandma and grandad to my children, it's weird to say but they are my parents and I love them so much and I owe them everything, we celebrate our anniversary every year and this year is a big one, 20 years since I came into their lives. All looks doom and gloom now but you don't know how they will turn out, based on my experience, I would say I would let them go into foster care, to carers that have been fully trained to deal with this. Keep contact with them and let him know you love them, but for them I think this would be the best option for them.

@Lorddenning1

You sound like an amazing person.
What a difference a great foster family can make to children's lives. You have all worked hard in your different ways to break that cycle. I hope you are proud of yourself and how far you have come.
Your children are lucky to have such an inspirational mum

I think people saying "Take the little one " misses the point entirely.These children have suffered severe trauma in their short lives .At 9 and 10 the older two are hardly big strapping lads! OP must decide what is best for her family and everyone saying things like "dont let them go into care" and so on is unhelpful.There are good foster carers who are trained to help children in this situation .OP having them live with her is a huge undertaking and most likely would be impossible to cope .Also the fact the boys are (unsurprisingly)violent and unpredictable means she and her family would be at risk as well!

My experience of families in this situation is that social workers will have already planned for a placement for the children before it goes to court for the final hearing. The fact that the sw wont discuss this with the op may mean that she isn't being considered as a suitable foster carer. Family members are almost always asked well before the final court hearing if they are willing to have the children should they be removed from the parent. They are then assssed as to their suitability.
I have known suitable foster carers being paid a 'holding fee' (I can't remember what it's actually called) so that when a family is removed they are available to have the children immediately.

LordDenning Thank you for your post .It is interesting to have input from someone who has lived through abuse and foster care, to have a positive outcome .So many negative stories abound ,with being in the care system a precursor to everything from being in prison to abusing others and so on .I wish you well, and am glad to hear how you have managed to turn your life around.

Lorddenning1

Just wanted to say your post really made me well up. Massive respect to you. What a power you had to make use of something good despite all the early adversity.

I hope that the (small minority) of posters who think that taking 2 or 3 of these children is the thing to do, please put themselves forward to adopt. There are sadly loads more children like the OP's nephews out there. Obviously they have the skills and resources most people lack so they would clearly make wonderful adopters.

Or not.

Or otherwise read all the OPs posts before commenting. There is now a very helpful new feature OP’s posts: See next | See all at the bottom of every one of an OP's posts to easily filter them.

As an adoptive parent whose children experienced early trauma, I would say PLEASE do not take in any of your nephews - even if the SWs consider that a suitable placement.

At this point the best thing you can do for them is to put your energy into keeping a relationship with them, advocating for them with the professionals, and being a consistent, caring adult from a slight distance. You will not be able to do that in the day to day chaos of trying to parent very troubled children.

@MyShinyWhiteTeeth

I think that the extreme behaviour is most likely to be reduced when they are in a safer environment.

I would possibly have the younger one at your mothers and try to have the 2 older ones at yours. Your children are older and will hopefully be good role models. I think it is worth trying.

If it fails then at least you can say that you tried.

This is appallingly irresponsible. You're talking about children, not training for a fucking marathon or going for a promotion at work. Worth a try because hey, at least you'll know you've given it a go is not how placement of children should be approached. If a placement fails, there will be significant further trauma for the child involved. All decisions have to be made with that knowledge in mind.

Sorry missed a bit of the post.