My sisters children are going to be removed

[Namechange543]

Name changed for this but hoping someone can offer some advice.

My sisters children are going to be removed, there is a court hearing on Tuesday to decide this but with the overwhelming evidence against her and the fact they’ve been on a child protection plan for so long with her making no positive steps it’s only going to go one way.

The social worker tells me once the judge has made a decision they will speak to family about placements for them. I really want to help but the problem is she has 3 children and I already have 2 of my own so I can’t take them all. I have a 4 bed house so couldn’t fit them even if I could cope with 5 children.

Will they want them to stay together or will they split them to keep them with family? And if they do split them how on earth do you decide which 1 you take?

It’s such a nightmare. My mum could take 1 and I could take 1 but then do we leave the 1 not chosen to go into foster care. How damaging would that be! I’ve cried so much this week with the guilt that I can’t help them all.

@Namechange543 hi, I'm an adoptive mum.

Ignore people who are saying take then because you have enough room. This isnt about bedroom space. There are three very traumatised children involved here who will need support beyond what most people can imagine.
The idea of recovery is difficult I think. Very few children over the age of 8/9 are adopted, for many and complex reasons. My son was at the upper end at 8. Has he recovered? well he is 16, he is happy, doing well, no behaviourial issues, going to college in September. We work well as a family and I love him with all my heart, but it has nearly broken me getting him here and he will live with the consequences for the rest of his life.

With the right support, input, therapy, all three of them have a chance of having some semblance on a normal future. But if you take any of them, even the 5 year old you are signing up for years of work which could have a devastating impact on your own family.
You have to take your own children into account here. Yes they are older but also at important points in their own lives. You also need to think about your husband and yourself.
The sexually inappropriate behaviour is very worrying. Bedroom sharing is out of the question here. Its not unknown for children to make false allegations. I have a friend whose family was devastated by false allegations made by an adopted child against the husband and birth son. It went all the way to court. I'm not trying to frighten you, but their behaviour will not miraculously improve when they are away from their mother's influence. But I think you know that.

You might find it helplful to have this moved to the adoption pages. What you don't need is a lot of clueless people trying to guilt you into taking the children because you have a big house.

@ComeBy Thank you. As heartbreaking as it is I am coming to see that specialist placements may be the best thing for them. All I want is the best for them. I don’t want them to feel like I abandoned them and let them go into care and I feel guilty that I can’t take and help them all. I don’t have any experience or knowledge in parenting disturbed children, I would obviously learn what I could but I would be needing support and it sounds like social care may not provide that. I guess I’ll see what next week brings and have this conversation.

As a family who felt unable to take in my DHs nephew as he was born with many disabilities (due to alcohol) and we already had 2 preschoolers of our own; I can honestly say I still believe we made the right choice. The foster carer could give him more support than we ever could.

Poor kids. It's an awful situation you all find yourself in. I only have a bit of experience with this but I very very much doubt given your mum's age, her contact with your sister, and the fact she only has one bedroom that she would be considered suitable to care for any of the siblings, I'm afraid (and I'd hope not, as that doesn't sound appropriate - they are going to need space from their abuser, personal space generally which a 1-bed flat can't give, and intensive support and a therapeutic approach that, reading between the lines, your mum may not be best placed to give).

Unfortunately I think the best option would be for the older two to be cared for seperately from one another, while maintaining contact with you, and possibly the youngest with you, if you're up for the very real challenge of a child whose brain development, behaviour and ability to handle their emotions has been shaped by trauma already. I don't say this to put you off - but the reality is they will need enormous amounts of time, love, therapy, support etc, and it would be a lot to handle. Given that your own children aren't far off uni/moving out ages I think that'd be doable in theory, but it won't be easy and you should be very honest about whether you're up to it (and there is no shame whatsoever if you're not).

[quote WhySoSexist]@AIMD I read OP's update and it doesn't change what I said. Social services are highly unlikely to allow OP to take custody of one child, her mother to take custody of another and a stranger to take custody of another. Social services want to keep children together as much as possible even if they fight. These children are still very young and with the correct help their behaviour could u-turn in a matter of months. Social services aren't going to permanently separate children from the family that they know just because it's a bit easier or avoids a short-term problem.[/quote]
You really have absolutely no idea. These children can’t be ‘u-turned‘ in a couple of months. These children don’t need to be separated because it’s a bit easier. They may well be damaged for life.

Your last message op I think you are right. Be the best Auntie. Those poor poor boys. You sound so caring and your heartbreak is coming off your posts. Disgraceful treatment of children. SW sounds useless

There was a poster who herself went through this and she was relieved a family member didnt take her for her fear.

Simon your a great Dad

We were long term therapeutic foster carers. Fostered several children who were violent and who had sexually abused other children. Would never consider it if my own children had been living at home. It's just too dangerous. One of the boys I fostered went on to murder a teenager. Please put your children first and let these children be looked after by professionals. You can still be a good supportive aunt.

don’t want to offer the youngest a home and not the oldest on the basis he will be easier.

It's not a case of the youngest being easier, it's a case of the older two needing carers able to give them one on one time 24/7 and being experienced with severely traumatised kids. Put bluntly you are not the best Carer for the older two. They stand a small chance elsewhere, they probably dont with you.

I have had some experience of this in my family, they certainly will split siblings if that is best for the children. Even family members can only apply just being related isn't enough, they will check your eligibility based on space, finances and other dependents before you even can apply.
Ss want a better than average lifestyle for children who have already been through so much. It is often best for them to be cared for by Foster parents with separate bedrooms, multiple holidays etc and for family to have regular access.

I'm sorry but I agree that you can't take these children on, nor can your Mum.
It sounds like they need to be separated- at least the older one, and placed in specialist care.
You can support them by being their Auntie.
It sounds like the system has let your DN down so badly, but I don't think you can repair the damage, not without destroying your own families lives.

As people have said, if you think your mum would try and enable contact with your sister even if this had been forbidde then she is not an option. I think it's also worth considering that it is, sadly, quite likely that if you had custody of one of the children and wouldn't allow them to see your sister that would cost you your own relationship with your mum.

Oh god what a horrible situation. Ditto that splitting them up would be hugely damaging. Can you really not take them, with a lot of support? It's surprising what we can cope with when we get landed with situations sometimes. What ages are they and yours?

[quote Namechange543]@ComeBy Thank you. As heartbreaking as it is I am coming to see that specialist placements may be the best thing for them. All I want is the best for them. I don’t want them to feel like I abandoned them and let them go into care and I feel guilty that I can’t take and help them all. I don’t have any experience or knowledge in parenting disturbed children, I would obviously learn what I could but I would be needing support and it sounds like social care may not provide that. I guess I’ll see what next week brings and have this conversation.[/quote]
Don't be guilted by SS. They'll promise you the moon on a stick but you can guarantee they won't deliver or the kids and the situation wouldn't have got so bad in the first place. You'll be stuck fighting tooth and nail for every smidge of support, let down probably entirely and stuck as guilt will mean you are unable to give him back.

RTFT, Time .

My heart hurts for you, OP.

But with everything you've posted here, you have to accept that you are not the right person to take on any of these poor children. They will all need years and years of intensive therapy and support, and it sounds like separate placements for all of them would be in their best interests. Social services has failed them miserably, and if they were to be placed with you, even one of them, you might not end up with the resources you need to ensure they get the help they clearly desperately need.

Even with all the help in the world, frankly, the damage sounds severe. You cannot put your own family at risk trying to fix the years and years of abuse they have all endured and learned to dole out to others. They need more than you can provide.

Oh I read the rest of it, what a nightmare. Could you take one of the oldest and the 5 year old and another family member the other older one? What a sad sad situation to have got to this point before something was done.

@DisobedientHamster - I meant respite in the wider sense, not respite provided/funded by SS. I was thinking more of with another grandparent's, close family friend etc.

agree with @DisobedientHamster . It would be worse for a family placement to break down due to lack of support and them feel rejected again by all, and the consequential damage it would do to your family, than for them to be fostered and keep contact. However you may need to be very assertive with ss that fostering them will not work for you or your mother.

A friend of ours reported his sister multiple times till the kids were removed. He loved them dearly but wasn't in a position to properly parent them
himself. They went to a good foster home and he kept in contact. The oldest is an adult now and also makes contact himself and thanked him for the help he gave them (school etc) growing up. Sometimes a good foster home can really help, it's not all doom and gloom.

I knew of a family who were minded by a brilliant foster carer she had respite care with a cm - during holidays etc each taken a turn - the dc had had a horrible time & ss took forever bringing them into care (it should also have been earlier & they wouldn't have been so damaged) but each of the dc went onto to individual lovely long term foster carers & it worked - one to my knowledge stayed even when an adult.
What you could do is be an active aunt who would be willing to have them for visits (with your dm help) & visit them - the thing most people don't take into account is how difficult 24/7 care for these three would be & how much impact on you & your family. Its one thing having a disabled dc & balancing that with their siblings or taking on 3 dc who were just unhappy & would eventually fit in - if they were all younger - possibly. But taken on these 3 you don't have the training & you wont get much support. It literally could break your family
Its heart breaking - state to the social worker that you want to be involved &to maintain contact but you honestly don't think you could cope & you couldn't in all conscience pick one child over the other

Heartbreaking OP, I hope you work something out

Is the social worker that you were talking to your sister’s social worker or the social worker for the children? Occasionally you do see these problems where the adult social worker is so invested in the adult in the situation and the children’s social worker so overworked/off sick/etc that it all tilts towards the adult and the children’s interests get left behind.

@ScissorsBike

It's your family, you should take them all.

Don't be ridiculous.

This is so sad OP. I just wanted to say you sound like such a kind loving person. The children will be blessed to have you, in whatever capacity is best for them and for you.

So sorry to hear this. Poor children