Alcohol - when does it become a problem?

[PamT]

I know that quite a lot of the members here talk about the amount of wine they drink and I'm not suggesting that anyone has a problem, but when does drinking become a problem? I don't drink an awful lot and if I open a bottle of wine it does tend to last 2 or 3 days but more often now I am finding myself thinking that I would like a drink, particularly when the kids are really stressing me out. I never drink more than a couple of measures on my own, but is that strong desire for a drink a sign that I am on a slippery slope - or does it just mean that I need to relax and enjoy a drink? I'm strong willed enough at the moment to resist but these thoughts do worry me.

My friend and I were discussing our current states of mind on the way home from school today and we are both feeling really down and unmotivated. We both finally have a couple of hours on our own with our youngest children in nursery/playgroup, yet our get up and go seems to have got up and gone. I spend my time on message boards and she watches tv, then we both see the mess that surrounds us and get more annoyed with ourselves but have no enthusiasm to do anything about it. Perhaps its just that the summer holidays have taken their toll or maybe we both need a kick up the bum.

Sorry to lump the two subjects together but they all seem to be part of the same problem. Your opinions and suggestions would be welcome. (BTW we both have a DH around but neither really seems to be clued up about how we are feeling)

You have struck a chord with me Pam, it does worry me sometimes how I seem to 'need' a drink. Like you I can make a bottle of wine last 2/3 nights, but I can also polish one off in a night. Some weeks, this being one, I decide thatI will not drink from Monday to Thursday, but if something horrid happens, I reach for the wine bottle, becasue I feel I deserve a drink. The longest I have gone without a drink and this includes 3 pregnancies is 4 weeks and I was very proud of myself then. As I now live alone (well with three children!) I am a solitary drinker, I would like to know what others think is 'too much'?

i heard once the definition of an alchoholism is when it interferes with your life or the lifes of those around you in a negative way continually of a length of time. this means of course that you dont have to drink everynight to be an alchoholic, drinking in binges at the weekend then coming home and having a row because of it - every weekend is the definition that a family is dealing with a drink problem. i think this a useful definition when dealing with my husband! i think is a useful definition full stop!

Is there a difference between a person with a 'drink problem' and an alcoholic?

I think as soon as you start to worry about it then its a problem. I worry about it a LOT, but then my partner, who is a massive binge drinker, doesn't seem to worry AT ALL!

I think Britain could be seen as a nation of alcoholics. I've travelled a lot and this is our reputation. I am actually quite paranoid about this. I wish I could relax about it a little to be honest!

there is not set definition of an alcoholic - there are many different types but basically you have a problem if you fin that drink controls you.

if any one is concerned about themselves or someone close to them you should look at the AA website they have a very useful '20 questions' which would help you to figure out if there is a problem there.

I worry about any long-term effects of drinking. I have been drinking since my teens, and although I don't get bladdered like I used to, I still think sometimes that I drink too much.

I am going to be brutally honest here and tell you how much I drink. I have a few cans on Friday night, a couple of pints Sat afternoon, then a bottle of wine and some on Sat night, a couple of pints Sun afternoon followed by half a bottle of wine in the evening and an odd can or two on Wed nights as dh plays squash then and usually goes to the pub afterwards, so I feel I might as well join in! When I was pregnant I did cut down but I didn't give up, I would have about 8 units a week, maximum. Is this too much? Or am I worrying unnecessarily? It just seems so much a part of our social life, a trip to the shops on Sat wouldn't be complete without a stop in the pub, and Sun wouldn't be complete without a video and a bottle of wine in the evenings.

I don't often have hangovers any more, but I still worry a bit that my drinking will affect my health in the long term. So yes, the big question is what is too much??

At the risk of sounding 'holier than thou', IMO too much is an amount that affects you being able to deal with your child if an emergency were to arise. This will vary based on your tolerance to alcohol. If you are anything like me, one glass of wine is too much!!! My dh says I only have to sniff the cork to be drunk!

I went through a stage a few years back, during my first depression, when I would come home from work every night, and have a LARGE tumbler of Baileys. I knew it could be a problem when I realised that my measures were getting larger every day, and I was too p*ed to cook! So, I cut it out completely, before I was too far gone to stop.

BTW, a cousin of my mum's died an alcoholic, and apparently it wasn't pretty.

PamT - it is OK IMO to want a drink because you are stressed. There is a bottle of wine on my kitchen table which was opened for exactly that reason. Do you do much in the day to get out of the house? When I am down, I find that this helps, although I agree that it is a job to get the motivation to even get up sometimes! If this goes on for a long time, it could be that you are getting depressed. If so, see your gp for some help. Don't let depression get a hold on you.

I think that alcohol becomes a problem when you realise you've run out and that the off licence is shut.

Willow2

Love it Willow2

Chinchilla, I am just worried that the stressed times of 'wanting' to have a drink is the route to 'needing' a drink. I resist most of the time but surely the 'wanting' makes it a problem. I also find depression very tough to deal with - what's the difference between feeling sorry for yourself/lack of motivation and proper depression? My father took his own life when I was 8 because he suffered depression and because of this I have always been frightened of it. To be honest I'd feel a bit pathetic going to the doctor and saying that I thought I was depressed and feel that I should pull myself together.

I had a nightmare day yesterday with DS1's friend coming to tea, but that is out of the way now and I've had my hair done this morning and to be honest everything looks a lot brighter. I ought to get on with some work whilst I am feeling so up.

I don't think you're being pathetic PamT. Losing your father like that is bound to have coloured how you look at things to some extent. But it doesn't sound to me like you have a drink problem. If yesterday was just a blip then fine get on with things but if you continue to feel down there's no reason why you shouldn't go to the doctor.

Exactly Bozza. Said more succinctly than me, but that was precisely what I wanted to say.

PamT - depression is impossible to quantify, and you do have good days in with the bad. It is different for each person, and some people just get on with it thinking that they don't want to be a 'burden'. Your story is really sad, and I'm so sorry that you lost your dad. Times are different now to when our parents suffered depression (my mother did), and there is so much more help now. If you continue to have bad days, and find that they outnumber the good, then get help. It may help just to talk to a counsellor.

I'm glad that you are feeling better today! Hope the hair 'do' is fab

PamT
Having had depression both postnatal and not (from my teens onwards) I would say there is nothing to lose by having a chat with your doctor about it. They might be able to give you a bit of advice about what to look out for!
Hope you are having a better day today!

This is a thread that caught my eye - how much is too much?

I agree with what everyone says that when it starts interfering with your life, then it becomes a problem.

I will be honest here and say what I drink, by the way I drink vodka, not wine or beer.

Every night, and I mean every night, after drinking coffee all day I drink one or two vodka's (my measures are definitely bigger than what you get in a pub, but not that big).

On my big night out (Friday nights are my only night out now H has finally left), I start drinking (usually having 2) while I am getting ready after he has picked the children up. We then go to a pub and I may have 5 or 6 vodkas and then onto a club where I will normally have another 3 or 4. I do feel hung over in the morning and, not to be too blunt, find that being hung-over always gives me the "runny" poos (this may be my body telling me I have over done it).

When I drink at night it is normally one while I start cooking dinner and then one a bit later on.

Sometimes I go to the pub at lunch and have 1 or 2 vodkas as well.

Oh dear! Writing it down here, it sounds an awful lot but I don't think I actually have a drink problem - I don't "need" a drink, just "enjoy" a drink.

I am sure I could stop if I wanted to - before my husband left me and we had nights out together, we used to take it in turns to drive and I could still enjoy myself without having a drink.

I have never been totally drunk when I have been responsible for my children - although this has happened when separated husband has had them over night.

If you honestly think I am drinking too much, please do tell me, although I don't think I will take much notice.

Bumblelion, yes you drink quite a lot, but I wouldn't say you have a problem, maybe it is more habit than necessity. If you really thought that you couldn't give it up or were incapable whilst looking after the children then it would be worrying. My point was more that I drink very little but feel myself wanting a drink and thinking about drink more and more often, even though I rarely actually have one. I find myself feeling guilty for feeling this way and therefore it is a problem for me even though I am not actually consuming the alcohol. Does that make sense?

Perhaps it is just my state of mind at the moment. I felt really happy yesterday with my shorter hair - a lot lighter on the head and the sun was shining. Today is cold and miserable and I feel that way too, though I have made an effort and done some of the jobs that I had been putting off for a few weeks, so that is a bonus. Perhaps I should invest in a light box to add a bit of sunshine to my life on a daily basis. I'm also going to invest in some Evening Primrose Oil as these have been recommended by several people. I've been tempted by St Johns Wort before but having read that this can interfere with the contraceptive pill I decided against it - an accidental pregnancy really would push me over the edge right now. Enough waffle, thanks for listening ladies.

Bumblelion - I wouldn't say you were drinking too much alcohol but just coffee and vodka doesn't sound that great. Maybe you should try and drink water during the day as well.

I have started drinking 1.5 litres of water a day (quantity recommended by Pupuce) and then reckon I can drink whatever else I like. In practice I tend to drink alcohol only at weekends (ie Thurs to Sun) but have a bit of a diet coke thing (so can sympathise with the coffee).

Most weeks I don't go out and will drink 6 (ie a bottle of wine) to 10 glasses. If I go out for a meal that might push it to the 10 glasses end. If I have a proper night out (once a month max) I will drink more wine and maybe some malibu (haven't really grown up) which isn't as strong as spirits.

Bumblelion, you have touched a nerve with your posting so I've had to change my name to post this as a few people knew my previous name.
I drink more than you do and I think it is a bit of a problem. It doesn't affect my daily routine but it does mean that I need to stay in in the evening. Which doesn't affect my childrens lives at the moment but it probably would when they start staying up latter.
I've felt really guilty and ashamed about this for years but dont seem to be able to break the cycle. I can't afford it and I don't want this anymore but breaking the cyle is another thing.
I have read other threads about mils fils and peoples own parents and feel utterly ashamed. I don't want to mess my family up. My dh has got to the point where he ignores the situation.

Wilma, (sorry but I'm sniggering at your new name - whoever you really are) I'm feeling a bit pathetic now with my 'I don't drink but I feel that I need to' question. I think you are admitting here that you do have a problem and that you would like to cut down and I also think that you are brave to admit this, they always say that opening up is the first stage to doing something about it. Is it possible to be more occupied in the evenings so that you don't have the opportunities to drink? All this sounds great coming from me doesn't it?, sorry.

Bozza, maybe you and I should have a Mumsnet Malibu Meetup, I love the stuff, preferably with coke (the drink not the drug) and you only live down the road from me too. When I first started asking for Malibu and coke nearly 20 years ago, the bar staff always used to look at me as if I was nuts, but it is rather nice and much more popular these days. I can say this and not feel guilty about it because this is a social drink and not an I need a drink situation if you know what I mean.

PamT, that's ok, I just wish I had your self control! This is ruining my life and yes I could do more to occupy myself but can't seem to find the strength. In the past when I have been forced to go without I have slept really badly waking up hot and cold all night. I know this would be a temporary thing but I use this as an excuse to carry on, it just seems easier although I know I need to do something. This is the nearest I've got to opening up in years, sorry to burden mumsnet! Glad you like my new name!

PamT - yes I drink it with coke too. Actually sometimes I'm a bit embarassed about asking for it because I feel I should be drinking something a bit more grown up now. But its easy going and if you're drinking a lot doesn't tend to give bad hangovers.

Wilma you are being very brave actually opening up about your drinking. And don't apologise - I bet you have given other mumsnetters loads of advice and sympathy under your proper nickname.

wilma I dont want to frighten you but the hot and cold feelings could be a physical withdrawal side effect do not ignore it sudden cessation from alcohol can be very dangerous. but you can get help do you get on well with your gp if so go and see him (or her) they will give you a reducing dose of tablets called chlordiapoxide these will help with the symptoms you are getting and you will only be on them for a few day till your body loses its physical dependance. once youve got over that hurdle your gp should be able to refer you to some counselling service to look at the reasons why your drinking and how to cope with it. dont be ashamed its more common than you think. good luck ring your gp now

Wilma, please follow Trudles advice, if not for yourself, do it for your family. If my self pity has helped someone else to turn their life around then at least I won't feel too selfish and pathetic. And don't forget to change your name back next time you go back to posting on normal threads!

Despite recent events, this thread shows that there are people who care on Mumsnet and that anonymity is still an option. Cyber hugs all round.

Thanks PamT. Trudles, what is sudden cessation? I can't ring gp now as I'm at work and will probably start crying!

Wilma, please come and tell us later that you have made an appointment, I'll be so proud of you.

suddenly stopping drinking is extremly dangerous and needs medical supervision i used to work in an acute medical admissions unit so ive dealt with a lot of people with similar problems. so what if you start crying im sure the receptionist is trained to help you through it. you will feel so much better once youve made the call.

wilma i have to go now tell us how you get on later take care