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Original poster

Visit to abbotoir before veg. child allowed to be meat eater?

182 replies

poppynic · 17/11/2006 11:27

My dp is a ultra-committed vego and decreed that if he had children they would have to be vego. Being desperate and clueless at the time I said, sure, whatever. We have now got through 4 years of vego child.

I asked dp when child could decide for himself. He said 5. Now child (4) is saying he wants to be a meat eater when turns 5. Dp wants child to visit abbatoir first . I'm a big softy and don't think it's fair to put ds through that horror - virtual child abuse. But I want him to be able to be a meat eater if he wants.

What do you think - is an abbatoir visit reasonable for a 5 year old?

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 17/11/2006 11:29

dunno, but bumping this for you.

SherlockLGJ · 17/11/2006 11:30

DP sounds a bit controlling in my opinion.

RubyRioja · 17/11/2006 11:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KBear · 17/11/2006 11:30

I don't think so - I watched this recently on tv, a group of adults went to an abbatoir with Hugh Fearnley-whatshisname and were terribly upset by it. Not suitable for a 5 yo IMO. Up to you of course but you surely have doubts or you wouldn't be asking right?

PrincessPeaHead · 17/11/2006 11:30

I think children should know that meat was originally animals and that they get killed to be eaten - I think that is all part of responsible eating (ie free range chickens, not battery etc). So I don't think an abbatoir is a bad idea, but more to see the calves going in and then the butchers shop next door, I don't think it is necessary to watch them actually being killed (and I don't know whether they would be allowed to watch anyway from a health and safety point of view).

You could phone up your local abbatoir (if you have one, they are thin on the ground these days) and say you want to teach your children about meat and where it comes from and what does he think about the idea - see what he says.

I'm a meat eater by the way, but only eat properly farmed animals, organic where possible and local where not.

geekgrrl · 17/11/2006 11:31

errrr - would an abbatoir actually allow a 5 year old to visit?

And no, I don't think it's reasonable. Dh is a meat-eater and thinks that everybody who eats meat should have experienced killing an animal to eat it, but he'd never expect the children to join in when we dispatch our chickens.

Original poster
poppynic · 17/11/2006 11:32

Thanks expat. Yes, Sherlock, DP is a bit controlling but also very involved and interested in DS. I need to pick my battles with DP - I think this is one I want to fight - but wanted some other opinions...

OP posts:
Mumpbump · 17/11/2006 11:33

Can't imagine anything worse for any child. Poor thing will have nightmares for ages afterwards. I'm veggie, but I do think it's a question of personal choice so am feeding ds meat. He can make up his own mind when he's older. Personally, I don't think it's right to impose vegetarianism on children when they have such high nutritional requirements.

sortoisetell · 17/11/2006 11:33

This sounds mad.

Does your child have to visit the sewers before he's allowed to use the toilet?

catinthehat · 17/11/2006 11:33

I'd get dp to check first with your local tourist board and see which abattoirs run visits for pre-schools and nurseries. I'm sure they would tell him exactly the best place to go.

Gingerbear · 17/11/2006 11:34

No, that is appalling and cruel. Your 5 year old will have nightmares for ever about animals being slaughtered.

Cappuccino · 17/11/2006 11:37

lol catinthehat

Saturn74 · 17/11/2006 11:37

I doubt an abbatoir would welcome a visit from a 5-year old!

Seems rather an extreme way to get a point over to a child.

I certainly wouldn't take my children.

I think it would be more helpful to openly discuss his views, even though they differ from that of his father.

Shock tactics set a strange precedent as a way of conducting communication in a family IMO.

Am I right in thinking that your DP will hope your child is shocked into wanting to remain a non-meat eater? What if he isn't - where do you go from there?

It is possible to scare children into believing and doing whatever you want, but it is no way for a responsible and loving parent to behave, IMO.

And I don't think it bodes well for a trusting relationship in the future.

CorrieDale · 17/11/2006 11:37

Well, we're veggie and so is DS - he's only 17 mo though. I'm taking the view that he can choose what to eat when he wants BUT I'm not buying him meat and I'm not cooking it for him either! So if he wants to eat it when he's out at friend's etc., then I won't stop him, but I will be doing a bit of brainwashing before then... Not sure if I could go as far as the abbatoir though, although in principle I think if you can make the connection between cows walking in and beef coming out, and still want to eat beef, then go for it! I don't think it's virtual child abuse BTW - farm children cope perfectly well with knowing the facts of life about cute baa lambs ending up on the plate.

To answer the question though, I think that it's unfair of your dp to move the goalposts now. And I say that as a similarly ultra-committed veggie. If he said 5 with no strings attached, then he should stick to it.

MegaLegs · 17/11/2006 11:37

That is really extreme.

We keep pigs at home for meat and my boys are fully aware that they will be slaughtered. We use a mobile slaughter service as they are for our own consumption. However the boys have never seen the deed being done.

Children should be aware of where their meat comes from but I think an abbatoir would be much for a 5 year old.

ProfYaffle · 17/11/2006 11:38

I'm veggie but allow dd to eat meat. The reason I'm veggie is because I feel the mainstream meat industry mistreats animals combined with my own inbuilt revulsion to eating dead stuff.

None of this is dd's fault and I believe it's up to her to choose whether she eats meat or not. At home i cook chicken breast from happy chickens for her, out of the house she can eat meat if she wants to. I have begun to educate her about where meat comes from and am quite matter of fact about meat being dead animals but I don't go overboard and don't try to scare her.

I think PPH's suggestion is spot on. Education and making an informed decision is one thing, traumatising a child is another.

WigWamBam · 17/11/2006 11:38

I'm vegetarian with a meat-eating dh and dd, and I think that's a vile thing to do to a 5 year old. I don't think it's abuse but I do think it's bullying and controlling behaviour. Your dh shouldn't be deliberately setting out to distress your child in order to force him to see things his way.

Your ds is at an age where he can take on board enough information to be able to make up his own mind - but he doesn't need your husband's propaganda in order to do it. I think that children should know where meat comes from, but telling him about it is one thing, taking him to an abatoir is quite another - he needs information, not bullying and blackmail.

expatinscotland · 17/11/2006 11:38

Hugh Fearlessly-Eatsitall even gave his adult guests the choice of visiting the abbatoir and how far they went in.

MrsBadger · 17/11/2006 11:38

I think there might be some middle ground here - think PPH is spot on.
Perhaps a visit to a farm with a butchers (farm-shop type)?
IMO an abbatoir is no place for children - watching Daddy catch a trout / shoot a pigeon etc is one thing but a commercial slaughterhouse is not for 5yos.

PrincessPeaHead · 17/11/2006 11:39

Hey I don't know what you all think abbatoirs are like, but the one very near us has a butchers shop next door so I am often there with 3 and 5 year olds. They see the calves being delivered, they go to the butchers shop and buy meet, they know what happens in there. THere isn't really anything awful about it (I'm sure it is a different matter where they are actually killijng them). I don't think it is very helpful just to say "what a nutter, imagine doing that to a child" - what about saying "OK, maybe it isn't a bad thing for a child to watch a butcher chopping up a carcass - after all that IS where our meat comes from".

Once it is dead and skinned, which is the point at which the child would see it being chopped up, it ISN'T pumping blood, it ISN'T gory, and it IS where meat comes from.

Or do you all think I'm mad?
Maybe its because I'm a country bumpkin living in a farming community that I think this isn't a bad idea...

Gizmo · 17/11/2006 11:39

Knowing where your food comes from is a great idea in my opinion, but an abbatoir is only a part of the story, of course. It might be easier (and give a better picture of what meat actually is) to arrange a trip to a local livestock farm so your DS could understand the process of rearing and marketing livestock, as well as slaughtering.

If you have a sympathetic local butcher, one who sources local product, he might be able to point you in the right direction. Otherwise I imagine the Soil Association should be able to make some suggestions about farm visits, and they might even be able to dredge up a list of (the few remaining) local small abbatoirs that might contemplate a visit.

PrincessPeaHead · 17/11/2006 11:41

oh sorry since I typed that out lots of you have said you don't think I'm mad, thank you!!!"

PrincessPeaHead · 17/11/2006 11:42

if you are in north wiltshire you can come to my house, we will look at a barn full of lovely little 3wk or less calves, then walk up the road to the abbatoir, have a look at some cows/lambs/pigs waiting to go in, and then go into the butcher and buy some chops for lunch . or go back home for a chickpea casserole

TooTickyTheLittleRedHen · 17/11/2006 11:43

If your dp talks about why he is veggie in a calm and reasonable way, your child will be more likely to be veggie later in life. If he feels controlled and put upon he may rebel. He is only 5 fgs and wants to experiment - it's what kids do. Abbatoirs are hellish, and much as I think adult meat eaters should visit, I would never subject a child to this.
I am vegan btw and find it hard when one of my children wants to eat meat (dp does) but I won't stop them - although I do insist it is not factory farmed and should be organic. I won't cook it though, and as I do all the cooking, the situation doesn't arise much.
(Did your dp eat meat as a child? I did until I was about 10 and although it gives me the horrors now, perhaps that was part of what made me veggie. And it was my choice.)
Sorry about the essay..

Piffle · 17/11/2006 11:43

if you source ethically produced meat, then your dp is being a madman
5 is too young
I lived and worked on a farm as a kid and killing lambs was just part of it, we also killer our own chickens.
But for a child suddenly thrust into it
madness