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Original poster

Visit to abbotoir before veg. child allowed to be meat eater?

182 replies

poppynic · 17/11/2006 11:27

My dp is a ultra-committed vego and decreed that if he had children they would have to be vego. Being desperate and clueless at the time I said, sure, whatever. We have now got through 4 years of vego child.

I asked dp when child could decide for himself. He said 5. Now child (4) is saying he wants to be a meat eater when turns 5. Dp wants child to visit abbatoir first . I'm a big softy and don't think it's fair to put ds through that horror - virtual child abuse. But I want him to be able to be a meat eater if he wants.

What do you think - is an abbatoir visit reasonable for a 5 year old?

OP posts:
KathyMCMLXXII · 17/11/2006 13:47

Can we say they're variable, then, Eve, because the one I saw was pretty grim and yes there were blood and guts everywhere!

FrannyandZooey · 17/11/2006 13:48

Ok, I see your point lemonaid. I thought it was the whole idea of the dietary control that people were objecting to - still not convinced it isn't, but I do see what you're saying.

Mercy · 17/11/2006 13:51

I have discussions with dd along the lines that Sophable has described.

I think 5 is actually old enough to decide if they do or don't want to eat meat. It will probably just be a short-lived thing at that age anyway.

Jimjams2 · 17/11/2006 13:53

If you're in NZ it may be easier to see an animal being killed by a farmer. In the EU there are HUGE restrictions now, and animals have to be trucked off to abbatoirs etc. When I worked on a farm in NZ (which was ages ago) the farmers still killed their own pigs (not allowed in the UK apparently), so there may be a chance to see something more "natural", that gives an understanding of the process. I think abbatoir is another issue really, because it starts to introduce the whole mass production of food issue).

Heathcliffscathy · 17/11/2006 13:54

my ds is 3 btw

agree about mass production jimjams.

probably there are abbatoirs and abbatoirs in that respect.

moljam · 17/11/2006 13:55

jimjams,are you saying you think it would be ok for a 5 year old to see that?

fannyannie · 17/11/2006 13:57

I think Jimjams is saying that seeing an animal killed on the farm by a farmer (or a chicken killed at home by a parent LOL) is a much better way of a child seeing an animal be killed. Abbatoirs are a whole different ball game, you're not just talking one or two animals, you're talking about truck loads.

mrsSnoah · 17/11/2006 13:57

You could damage the child psychologically I fear.

Why not do this thru a more positive approach and teach him about value and quality of life.

From the age of 5yrs, I grew up feeding pheasant chicks, then watched people shoot them 6 months later.
Fascinated, I would help as they were plucked and drawn. It was a biology lesson and the circle of life is one of the most important a child can have.
This, in turn, leads to respecting the food that we eat.

I understand what your DP is trying to do, but I think he perhaps should tone it down to a child's level.
Less shock factor, more understanding?

PinkTinsel · 17/11/2006 13:58

iklboo, like i said, my dp worked in a large scale abbatoir where the pigs were gassed so occasionally (very rerely as far as i can tell) they did wake. prectices might have changed even in that abbatoir though as this was almost 10 years ago. theres no way he was lying, if you'd seen the look on his face when he decribed it.........

if you don't want to do the handling meat thing then do as someone else suggested and bring him to the butchers and get the butcher to demonstate which meat comes from which carcass and all that.

zippitippitoes · 17/11/2006 13:59

when i was little animals were killed in the abbattoir at the back of the butchers and we kids used to go and hang around there when the killing was on..mixed group of kids from about 2 or 3 upwards.. they did have rules..only boys were allowed in to watch them being shot, but we girls were allowed to play with the entrails..the bladders were used as water psitol and stained clothes right through to vests

this is wales by the way laugharne

moljam · 17/11/2006 13:59

think child shouldnt see any animal killed whatever the situation and whether veggie or not.hes 5 he should be playing thomas the tank engine not watching animals be killed to see where his foods from.

fannyannie · 17/11/2006 14:01

DS2 (3yrs old) recently saw a chicken being killed (bare hands, break the neck job), plucked, prepared etc etc and then cooked - I didn't realise he'd seen the the killing until later. He was totally fascinated by it - and seems to like his chicken even more since then LOL

Heathcliffscathy · 17/11/2006 14:09

ds has eaten fish that he has seen me and his dad catch and kill.

he spent a long time squeezing them and poking their eyes afterwards...

Pruni · 17/11/2006 14:09

Message withdrawn

Heathcliffscathy · 17/11/2006 14:10

why moljam?

Jimjams2 · 17/11/2006 14:10

Depends on the child- whenever the child is ready- I think at ANY age it would be preferable to see an animal being killed 1 on 1 than in an abbatoir. Unfortunately in the UK there are many regulations and I was told for example that you are no longer allowed to kill say a pig on our farm.

The butchers abbatoirs that zippi describes have gone as well (our local butcher used to have them) to be replaced by large scale industrial type abbatoirs.

The age at whcih it is "appropriate" for a child to see an animal being killed depends as piffle say earlier on the child's environment as well. Children living on farms will have seen dead sheep (they may have remved the woll), they may have seen lambs skinned to make little jackets for orphaned lambs, and for such a child seeing an animal being killed is a natural extension. For a city dweller with very limited contact with the country it might be different. Historically children will have seen animals being killed routinely, where it would upset a child will depend I guess on how far it is from the norm.

Blu · 17/11/2006 14:18

I would have been fascinated to visit an abbatoir when I was a child.

On a visit to an agricultural college when i wa at primary school, they shoed us the chicken farm, compltete with wrining the neck of one. Then they asked if nyone wanted to try plucking and 'drawing' it - guess who volunteered?

Children aren't necessarily sqeamish, faint hearted or even particularly soft-hearted.

Am probably a psychopath. though.

Blu · 17/11/2006 14:19

A psychopathic bad typist...sorry.

beckybrastraps · 17/11/2006 14:27

TBH, I think it would be better to not allow him to eat meat if your dp feels so strongly.

I do understand the logic of PPH etc, but the child is (or will be) 5 years old.

Mi PILs were farmers, and my children helped with the animals and know what happens to them in theory. But there is no way on earth their grandparents would have let them see a slaughter at such a young age.

WigWamBam · 17/11/2006 15:01

Do you not think it should be the child's choice at this age and not his father's, becky?

No-one will be able to stop him eating meat once he starts eating away from the family - school dinners, birthday parties - and the more someone refuses something, the more children are likely to rebel.

If he's growing up around vegetarians the chances are he will come back to it in the end - he's just wanting to experiment. And, of course, the fact that it's forbidden makes it far more exciting ... his dad making a huge issue out of it makes it far more tempting than if no-one made a fuss about it at all.

edam · 17/11/2006 15:29

I am a veggie who grew up in the countryside, helping on my friend's farm, wringing chicken's necks (before turning veggie, obv). But I wouldn't take a small child who isn't from a farming community to an abbatoir. Apart from anything else, what I remember from our local abbatoir was that the cows were terrified and shitting themselves - they knew something bad was happening in there.

Agree with all the constructive suggestions re visit to farm and then butchers to see full carcass being prepared. Your dh has to accept that your ds may still want to eat meat - some kids are made of hardy stuff!

MrMiaou · 17/11/2006 16:26

Only just noticed this, but for what it's worth I would say that at 5 years old a child should understand what is involved in eating meat.

They need to understand that animals are killed to provide meat.

But there is no way that I would inflict a trip to an abbatoir on my children and the 2 oldest are 8 and 9.

I worked in one when I was 12 (totally illegal but what the heck!) I have made sure that when we see fields full of cute wee lambs being fattened that they understand why they are there - to be killed for us to eat. They have seen me gutting fish, and I will happilly clean rabbits etc in front of them, and encourage them to help.

But I think an abbatoir is a step too far.

Just my 2 cents...

KathyMCMLXXII · 17/11/2006 16:45

Maybe some kind MNer needs to volunteer to go round to Poppynic's house and gut a rabbit in front of her children

Original poster
poppynic · 17/11/2006 16:52

Oh thanks Kathy... sometimes I'm so glad this is anonymous

OP posts:
sweetkitty · 17/11/2006 17:05

Don't think you would find an abbatoir that would allow a 5yo to watch animals being killed IMHO.

I have been in quite a few abbatoirs through my last job, I have been vegetarian for years though not through the visits but before that, the visits did strengthen my beliefs though.

I do feed the DDs meat but when they are older I will tell them where it comes from and let them make a choice as to whether they want to keep eating it.