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The Bluestocking Pub, where we continue to read about gerbils nobly and bravely working undercover in the Fen.

1000 replies

AsWithGlad · 20/08/2026 15:44

Welcome to The Bluestocking, the best (perhaps only) online women's pub. Nothing in the food or drink can harm you, everything is served by a very enthusiastic crew of gerbils, who enjoy doing this, and any curious menfolk are welcome at the Staunch Ally down the road.

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5564959-the-bluestocking-womens-pub-in-which-we-wait-excitedly-for-the-next-instalment-of-goseis-adventures

OP posts:
Thread gallery
104
MyrtleLion · 31/08/2026 22:37

Boiledbeetle · 31/08/2026 21:53

One should always answer PIP questions (if applicable) with "No. I cannot safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly, and within a reasonable time period carry out the task specified."

Of course they ignore it it and reasons with "I am of the opinion Boiled can repeatedly carry out x as I saw her do y" despite the fact y never happened and was not performed in front of the assessor.

I remember getting my first assessor response many years ago and honestly I thought for a good while I was reading about a different person and thought the assessor had mixed me up with someone else.

Honestly @MyrtleLion ( I'm assuming this is for the mandatory review stage) I'd just assume the mandatory review is not going to get you anywhere and accept it as a necessary but ultimately pointless step in the journey to the tribunal.

The tribunal for DLA/PIP/ESA thankfully have panels and judges that aren't getting paid to deny claims. Save your energy for that.

Oh no, this is so disappointing. I am actually citing three cases decided by the Upper Tribunal in 2021 and 2024 that say you can't extrapolate from volunteering or work history that someone can therefore undertake other activities

If anyone is interested in the decisions, they are here KW v SSWP [2024] UKUT 410 (AAC) https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/kw-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-2024-ukut-410-aac
AE v SSWP [2024] UKUT 381 (AAC) https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/ae-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-2024-ukut-381-aac
AC v SSWP [2021] UKUT 216 (AAC) https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/ac-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-pip-2021-ukut-216-aac and https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61572bc3d3bf7f56020e4db6/CPIP16272020-00.pdf]

I had hoped by saying "they haven't applied the test and here is the case law" in a letter than is currently running at 19,000 words, they would properly reassess her. I don't know if we can afford a lawyer to go to a Tribunal.

😭

Mind you, as you said, I did write a version of "No. I cannot safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly, and within a reasonable time period carry out the task specified." in her application and she was turned down on every point.

Boiledbeetle · 31/08/2026 23:09

MyrtleLion · 31/08/2026 22:37

Oh no, this is so disappointing. I am actually citing three cases decided by the Upper Tribunal in 2021 and 2024 that say you can't extrapolate from volunteering or work history that someone can therefore undertake other activities

If anyone is interested in the decisions, they are here KW v SSWP [2024] UKUT 410 (AAC) https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/kw-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-2024-ukut-410-aac
AE v SSWP [2024] UKUT 381 (AAC) https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/ae-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-2024-ukut-381-aac
AC v SSWP [2021] UKUT 216 (AAC) https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/ac-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-pip-2021-ukut-216-aac and https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61572bc3d3bf7f56020e4db6/CPIP16272020-00.pdf]

I had hoped by saying "they haven't applied the test and here is the case law" in a letter than is currently running at 19,000 words, they would properly reassess her. I don't know if we can afford a lawyer to go to a Tribunal.

😭

Mind you, as you said, I did write a version of "No. I cannot safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly, and within a reasonable time period carry out the task specified." in her application and she was turned down on every point.

Edited

You don't need legal representation for a PIP tribunal. You will be perfectly capable of assisting your DSD at tribunal.

They ask more relevant shit than the PIP assessor probably did, and they actually look at the original evidence you sent in the PIP bundle (the PIP assessor probably didn't read about 80% of it) and listen to the responses given in the tribunal without extrapolating impossible data from the responses.

Honestly the tribunal is about the only sensible bit of the whole process.

You might persuade them to change their mind at mandatory review, but I would send your request in assuming they will still not read a word of it. At least then if they do read it and change their mind it's a bonus.

Plus, the PIP people know they aren't following the legislation/rules properly. They just don't care.

AngleofRepose · 31/08/2026 23:11

Bar gerbils, a nightcap, please, before I go to bed. Very milky hot chocolate, more chocolate than sugar, thanks.

It's been a strange evening, and I've been cheering myself up by posting pictures of 1940s film stars in Chat, and checking to see who has a sale on.

Doesn't anyone besides John Lewis still do Bank Holiday sales?

AngleofRepose · 31/08/2026 23:12

And, are pirate boots really "in" ?

Boiledbeetle · 31/08/2026 23:19

@MyrtleLion

From benefits and work:

What to write in your request
Explain which activities you consider you should have scored more points for and why. You might find the PIP Appeal Outline creator below useful for this.

https://benefitsandwork.co.uk/pip-appeal-creator-form

There’s a lot more information on giving evidence in the benefits and works guides to PIP mandatory reconsiderations and appeals. (Costs £20 to access them but worth every penny)

I went from no ESA And no DLA to ESA support group and DLA for life at tribunal using their appeal guides. Then when it changed to PIP their guides made the switch easier as well.

PIP Appeal Outline Creator

Get the benefits you're entitled to: help with personal independence payment (PIP), universal credit (UC), employment and support allowance (ESA),disability living allowance (DLA). Claims, assessments, reviews, appeals.

https://benefitsandwork.co.uk/pip-appeal-creator-form

AsWithGlad · 31/08/2026 23:44

EmpressaurusKitty · 31/08/2026 21:14

It’s meeses when it needs to rhyme with cheeses.

Or rhyme with “pieces” as in
I hate these meeces
to pieces

(I wrote the whole thing out for those Bluestockingers who are to young to know Pixie and Dixie.)

OP posts:
inkymoose · 31/08/2026 23:52

MarieDeGournay · 28/08/2026 11:21

I agree with you Errol - I just think that everything has to be somebody's fault these days.

Weary, the eye test results sound good, that must be a big relief.

Beautiful photos of the moon, Kitty - it was completely clouded over here so your photos are very welcome.

It was not just wet all day yesterday but... a bit nippy in the evening - did we ever think we'd use those words again just a short time ago? could we even grasp the concept of 'nippy'?

I love the 'cathedrals in popular culture' theme😄
To add to the 'bassoons in popular song' list - I submit: the opening bars of Smokey Robinson's 'Tears of a Clown', I suppose because the bassoon sounds clown-y.
Not just any old clown - he mentions Pagliacci in the lyrics..

I suspect the bassoon in popular song' list is going to be a short list😒

Inky - it's interesting what you say about fillums😉- I used to be really into films, when I was in my 20s I went to the local cinema every week to see whatever was on, good or bad, high or low.

At some point films seemed to change - much faster/noisier/really fast editing. Crash bang wallop.
The camera standing still on just one, beautiful shot, or slow pans don't happen much any more.

The cinema as an image-based art seems to be relegated to 'niche'.
I lost interest. Sometimes a film will turn up on TV that I like because it is visually attractive, but otherwise - not attracted any more.

I wonder if you've found that films have got even more overstimulating over the years, Inky?

That's a good question, Marie ... I have been exposed to more of them, so maybe the overstimulating effect has been blunted. But I'm ever so old now, and find it hard to remember clearly. I think sometimes the story is overwhelming, not just the sensory effects. Films I've really enjoyed are small in number, a rather eclectic collection, including M.A.S.H., The Sound of Music, The Jungle Book, and possibly 2001 - A Space Odyssey, Ring of Bright Water, all seen at the cinema when I was a teenager. Later I saw some older films, Gone with the Wind, Some Like It Hot, Brief Encounter, The African Queen, It's a Wonderful Life. I probably saw all of those on TV. Did not go to the cinema or watch TV for several years in my 20s. After that, sporadic film-watching, recently seeing NT Live The Tempest, Richard 111, Hamlet, and feature films such as Poor Things. In my 30s and 40s I preferred live theatre when it was available. I liked The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri, but wasn't thrilled by Blade Runner 2049. One of my favourite films is actually an animation designed for children, Song of the Sea - a beautiful film.

Films I found more overwhelming included Alien, The Thing, There Will Be Blood, dark and frightening, amoral movies. I generally avoid horror these days although I once used to be drawn to the old-style horror films.

AsWithGlad · 01/09/2026 00:10

AngleofRepose · 31/08/2026 21:13

I also have no idea where this is heading, but now Gemma Glasswing is involved again, and they're getting close to knowing the password, so I'm gripped! Am worried that the gerbils might be in over their heads (we don't want another kidnapping). And I need to know what kind of sandwiches they're having.

I’m worried, too. If it needed three gerbils plus Halcyon to carefully lift the crate, then what did Fenella do before our brave adventurers arrived? She was very keen to recruit all three gerbils even without three defined roles.

What happened to the possibly three workers who were there previously? Did they come to a nasty passing? There are still remote wetlands in the Fens.

OP posts:
AsWithGlad · 01/09/2026 00:18

AsWithGlad · 31/08/2026 23:44

Or rhyme with “pieces” as in
I hate these meeces
to pieces

(I wrote the whole thing out for those Bluestockingers who are to young to know Pixie and Dixie.)

And mouses when it has to eye-rhyme with houses, though.

(too young, not to young…)

The Bluestocking Pub, where we continue to read about gerbils nobly and bravely working undercover in the Fen.
The Bluestocking Pub, where we continue to read about gerbils nobly and bravely working undercover in the Fen.
OP posts:
WearyAuldWumman · 01/09/2026 00:33

AngleofRepose · 31/08/2026 23:12

And, are pirate boots really "in" ?

Haven't a clue.

Is there any possibility of wide-fitting trainers ever being in?

inkymoose · 01/09/2026 01:17

MyrtleLion · 31/08/2026 17:53

They're not on the table. Swashy is sitting at the table, taking off her boots. I hoped that was clear... 😞

Gosie will be around shortly.

Edited

Quite clear! That's why the image was so discombobulating .... in it, the boots were on top of the table Blush 👀
. . . and I called the AI out on its representation, not the story teller Flowers because AI is often wayward and a bit dim, in my experience.

I love the stories and Swashy taking her boots off was great. I'm sure she put them down under the table.

inkymoose · 01/09/2026 01:32

inkymoose · 01/09/2026 01:17

Quite clear! That's why the image was so discombobulating .... in it, the boots were on top of the table Blush 👀
. . . and I called the AI out on its representation, not the story teller Flowers because AI is often wayward and a bit dim, in my experience.

I love the stories and Swashy taking her boots off was great. I'm sure she put them down under the table.

Urgh! Just checked the Thread Gallery. There is only ONE boot on the table, why was I sure they were both there?

Anyway. I am sorry to have caused any offence Flowers

<Penitentmoose> hiding

proud moose GIF
inkymoose · 01/09/2026 02:02

MyrtleLion · 31/08/2026 21:38

None of Regulation 4(2A)'s four elements of the reliability test are named or addressed individually anywhere in the PA4 or the decision letter. It appears that neither the assessor nor the decision-maker actually applied the legal test at all. If that is indeed the case, then this is an atrocious example of negligent and unprofessional conduct. In fact, we would go so far as to say it is reprehensible.

this is a draft so far. I'm trying to get them all in.

Sounds good.

I would try to use strong terms that aren't necessarily emotional words. How about "egregious" instead of "atrocious"? "Atrocious" is a good word, but I'm imagining the meaning to be "bad" in this context, so in order to be unambiguous, "egregious" or even " a clearly egregious example" would be stronger.

You are absolutely going in the right direction.

inkymoose · 01/09/2026 02:15

Boiledbeetle · 31/08/2026 23:09

You don't need legal representation for a PIP tribunal. You will be perfectly capable of assisting your DSD at tribunal.

They ask more relevant shit than the PIP assessor probably did, and they actually look at the original evidence you sent in the PIP bundle (the PIP assessor probably didn't read about 80% of it) and listen to the responses given in the tribunal without extrapolating impossible data from the responses.

Honestly the tribunal is about the only sensible bit of the whole process.

You might persuade them to change their mind at mandatory review, but I would send your request in assuming they will still not read a word of it. At least then if they do read it and change their mind it's a bonus.

Plus, the PIP people know they aren't following the legislation/rules properly. They just don't care.

I read this after responding to Myrtle.

It all makes sense to me now. What a cynical system, deliberately failing people so that they may give up. I had some experience helping people to apply for DLA when that was still a thing, and people were advised to expect to have to appeal and attend a hearing even then.

It's the assumption that most people are faking that gets me, along with the administrators/assessors simply not caring.

EmpressaurusKitty · 01/09/2026 05:28

AsWithGlad · 31/08/2026 23:44

Or rhyme with “pieces” as in
I hate these meeces
to pieces

(I wrote the whole thing out for those Bluestockingers who are to young to know Pixie and Dixie.)

I’m clearly too young to know Pixie & Dixie - I was thinking of Scrooge’s mice in The Muppet Christmas Carol. ‘No cheeses for us meeces’.

ChristmasStars · 01/09/2026 05:45

AngleofRepose · 31/08/2026 23:12

And, are pirate boots really "in" ?

Pirate Boots are surely always in! Just look at Swashbuckled.

DeanElderberry · 01/09/2026 07:49

Good morning.

I'm running to catch up, having had a thunderstorm interruption to internet connection and a lot of scrambling to clear space for the BED which arrives late today. I hope it all goes smoothly. The room it's going into is still a mess but I've worked out where to put sundry things (rugs, a chest, a table and chairs) that need relocation, and I think I have found some fabric I can use to repair the sun-damaged curtains.

Ambition for the future - no cupboards that can't be accessed because of the stuff in front of them.

HAGADAPA

Chersfrozenface · 01/09/2026 08:11

Bon courage with the PIP crap, @MyrtleLion.

I am back from tractor country, having found a shop with even more tractor porn (5 titles) and another with a cider called Barb Wire, which is flavoured with rhubarb.

And pirate boots, eh? Though I already have rather a lot of boots - getting to SABLE proportions.

AngleofRepose · 01/09/2026 08:46

inkymoose · 01/09/2026 02:15

I read this after responding to Myrtle.

It all makes sense to me now. What a cynical system, deliberately failing people so that they may give up. I had some experience helping people to apply for DLA when that was still a thing, and people were advised to expect to have to appeal and attend a hearing even then.

It's the assumption that most people are faking that gets me, along with the administrators/assessors simply not caring.

What a cynical system, deliberately failing people so that they may give up.

See also insurance conpanies!

AngleofRepose · 01/09/2026 08:49

EmpressaurusKitty · 01/09/2026 05:28

I’m clearly too young to know Pixie & Dixie - I was thinking of Scrooge’s mice in The Muppet Christmas Carol. ‘No cheeses for us meeces’.

Edited

I love the Muppets Christmas Carol! 😀I thought Michael Caine was very brave (and talented, of course), acting opposite Kermit and Miss Piggy.

AngleofRepose · 01/09/2026 08:52

Chersfrozenface · 01/09/2026 08:11

Bon courage with the PIP crap, @MyrtleLion.

I am back from tractor country, having found a shop with even more tractor porn (5 titles) and another with a cider called Barb Wire, which is flavoured with rhubarb.

And pirate boots, eh? Though I already have rather a lot of boots - getting to SABLE proportions.

I just saw in S&B last night that someone is saving up to make the Pirate Boots their autumn purchase, so got me wondering. I'm sure Swashy will have something to say about it, along the lines of "a puppy is not just for Christmas..."

AngleofRepose · 01/09/2026 08:55

And good morning to everyone else! So far it's sunny, and I've got to go out and Get Stuff Done.

Wishing you inspiration with your complaint @MyrtleLion . They will clearly need to be badgered into doing their jobs!

HAGADAPA!

Chersfrozenface · 01/09/2026 08:57

AngleofRepose · 01/09/2026 08:49

I love the Muppets Christmas Carol! 😀I thought Michael Caine was very brave (and talented, of course), acting opposite Kermit and Miss Piggy.

The Muppet Christmas Carol is a Christmas tradition in our house. It has to be played every year.

As for Pixie and Dixie and Mr Jinks.... At one time during my childhood we each got one weekly comic and mine was Huckleberry Hound Weekly. Yeah, I'm old.

ChristmasStars · 01/09/2026 09:02

EmpressaurusKitty · 01/09/2026 05:28

I’m clearly too young to know Pixie & Dixie - I was thinking of Scrooge’s mice in The Muppet Christmas Carol. ‘No cheeses for us meeces’.

Edited

Well this is odd. I was convinced the line I hate those meeces to pieces was Tom and Jerry. Your mention of P&S made me doubt for a second so I checked. Not T&J at all!

MyrtleLion · 01/09/2026 09:12

Boiledbeetle · 31/08/2026 23:09

You don't need legal representation for a PIP tribunal. You will be perfectly capable of assisting your DSD at tribunal.

They ask more relevant shit than the PIP assessor probably did, and they actually look at the original evidence you sent in the PIP bundle (the PIP assessor probably didn't read about 80% of it) and listen to the responses given in the tribunal without extrapolating impossible data from the responses.

Honestly the tribunal is about the only sensible bit of the whole process.

You might persuade them to change their mind at mandatory review, but I would send your request in assuming they will still not read a word of it. At least then if they do read it and change their mind it's a bonus.

Plus, the PIP people know they aren't following the legislation/rules properly. They just don't care.

I'm pleased I can represent her.

It is so awful that they don't care. I thought the high rejection rate was because people were not filling in the application form to say how their disability affected them, just saying "I have one leg, I'm disabled" (I'm being flippant). But I filled in her form in really great detail about her issues.

She said everything again in the meeting AND the assessor WROTE IT DOWN in the Functional History and still said she was fine. 😡

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