An update- struggling with my trans friend.

[Llamallamadingdong]

An update to my previous thread which many of you kindly commented on.

I finally told my friend that I don’t feel comfortable helping him shop for women’s clothes.

The first response I got was “well I’m going to cancel my next gender clinic appointment then as you obviously don’t think I’m on the right path”.

I stayed calm, stated that if my friend does feel that they are the wrong gender, they shouldn’t need my (or anyone else’s) validation to follow what they feel is right for them.

I then got a bit of emotional blackmail on Friday night which I ignored and then last night at 1am got a long essay about why I need to give reasons that I am uncomfortable about it. I didn’t reply as I was a) asleep and b) rattled by that demand.

I replied saying that in my heart I don’t feel it is possible to change gender as regardless of the hormones we take or clothes we choose to wear, nothing can change our DNA on a chromosomal level. I am a scientist and I believe…well…science.

I also said that I feel uncomfortable about the agenda of some trans people towards women who dare to question them and that I feel women’s rights are being eroded in some cases by the behaviour of some (not all). Clearly had my weetabix this morning as I wouldn’t normally be this confrontational.

The outcome: I was told I am a “normal” women who has been corrupted by terfs on the internet and listen to the “bile that they spew on social media”. I was also subsequently called a TERF and told that I need to spend more time with trans people so I can properly understand them and that I should know him well enough that he doesn’t have any agenda.

I haven’t replied, he is now spamming me with the same messages to my WhatsApp and texts. I feel so conflicted. Part of me wants to just block and delete and the other part of me is shaking with anger.

@Namelessnellyback in the day, there were trans people who used the women's loo just because they felt safer/more comfortable there. Of course we noticed, but they had no intention of harming us, they weren't trying to make us uncomfortable or use us for validation. I used to just politely ignore and move on. It wasn't a big deal. Those people still exist. It just all went pear shaped when you had the aggressive men, who hate women and want access as a means of control or to get to vulnerable women r who were playing out their fetishes and demanding access as their right.

Now if OP's friend had been the former type (but a bit captured ) then the relationship could be saved.

But if he's the latter and won't accept 'agree to disagree' or has gone full blown TRA, then yes, obviously block and delete.

Women were absolutely right to push back on the self ID nonsense giving rights of access to men. I just also think that we do need to remember the old style trans person still exits - the ones who would never have said they were actual women. They too have been damaged by the TRA madness.

It’s especially odd given that poster pops up regularly to claim that TWAW. Not this one, apparently.

Put the trans part to one side for a moment.

OP why do you want to keep contact with someone who treats you like this and speaks to you like this? And who has so little respect for your feelings or boundaries? What do you get out of this? Is this what 'friendship' looks like in your head?

Ask yourself that first. Do you have many people you keep in your life and try to please when they treat you like this and make you feel like this?

Then ask yourself is the word 'trans' putting any special pressure on you that you feel obligation, guilt or fear to say no and walk away, or that you feel some duty to tolerate and suck up what you wouldn't from anyone else?

@HopingForTheBest25 we also, back in the day, had what was known in the organisation as the 'dirty mac' brigade. It's important not to put a rosy glow on this.
Our local trans person used to turn up in his dirty Mac, disappear into the public toilets and reappear with badly applied lipstick, and vast quantities of strings of beads over the top of his Mac.
We always made sure that the desk was then well manned because he'd then appear and lean on the counter looking for validation, twirling his beads, adjusting his wig. Telling us ha name was Susan. It was made very clear by the ex-forces colleagues that he wasn't to go into the ladies, which he did try. He was truly terrifying to deal with as a slip of a thing in my early 20s and made absolutely everyone - older ex forces, middle aged women, our charming closeted colleague equally uncomfortable and the dirty Mac man knew that.

Well yes, there have always been aggressive, piss taking men. I too remember getting flashed (that seems to be a weirdly 70s/80s phenomenon) and it's those types who have really latched onto being given rights to access women's spaces.

Don't get me wrong, I think no biological male should have a right to anything belonging to women. But there are decent trans people out there, who are also bro g harmed by the trans ideology. I have a friend who is trans and who is a good person. He's gone down the route of thinking JKR hates trans people but at heart, he's decent and kind and I wouldn't want to lose him because we disagree.

But it sounds like OP's friend s the entitled type so that being the case, I agree she must do what is right for her own wellbeing.

Wow that escalated quickly. You declined to go shopping with him and the emotional manipulation and insults started immediately. His behaviour shows that the friendship was based on his needs (using you as a prop) rather than on his valuing of you as an individual. What a nasty piece of work. Urgh.

Yes this. The male entitlement is strong with this one.

Why on earth would you want to be friends with this person. He is clearly not your friend. Ignore him from this point on and let him get on with it.

Yes - I’d say this to him first! Then block

But the OP has not indulged. Her whole OP was about the friend’s reaction because she didn’t indulge. Were you going to berate her for her past action’s? Little point in that as she’s not doing it anymore. The advice is being asked for is what to do next. She’s had some good advice on that.

Say no to a transwoman and the man appears.

Your DH is right!

You don't need this crazyness in your life.

The fact that his gender clinic appointment hinged on your approval says everything that needs to be said.

As others have said, you’d never accept a normal friend treating you like this, so definitely don’t accept it just because he’s decided he’s trans.

I would also be deeply tempted to write him a message saying that you’re very concerned that he was willing to throw away his new identity based on you not fully agreeing with his self image, has he considered that it’s not as deeply felt as he thinks he is if he’ll cancel away a medical appointment for something so small? But that would 100% be throwing fuel on the fire for the sake of a wind up, so I couldn’t in good conscience recommend it.

You say you don't usually stand up for yourself so you don't make the other person uncomfortable Op, that's exactly why he picked you, he thought you'd just go along with it. He's outraged that you've finally stood up for yourself when he thought you'd be a pushover. A real friend doesn't make your life worse, this friendship has always been one sided, time it was over

Entitled men do not like it when you stand up to them. They can dish it out but never take it. your ‘trans friend’ is clearly in this bracket and just expecting you to validate his choices. Your DH is right - the moment he called you a terf he showed you who he is. Time to set this friendship aside and move on. He will just take from you and give nothing in return.

I am 38.

Our friendship happened as we used to work together, I always thought he was a bit vulnerable, drinks a lot, gets very depressed, doesn’t have many friends etc so I’ve always tried to be supportive of him as I’ve worried about this vulnerability.

We’ve known eachother about 10 years (no longer work together) and the trans situation first came apparent about 3 years ago when he was very drunk one night, called me upset and said I was the only one he could tell that he believes he is actually female.

I’d say at that time I wasn’t particularly clued up about trans issues etc and very much took an each to their own approach and so whilst I essentially supported his wishes to explore this in more detail he didn’t really want to do much about it other than order women’s clothes online and wear makeup at home.

Earlier in the year (after a year of waiting) he got a gender clinic appointment. The clinic have challenged him that in order to be fully diagnosed as gender dysphoric he needs to a) tell more than one person- I am currently the only person who knows other than the medics. And b) take steps to affirm his female identity.

He was putting a lot of pressure on me to go shopping for girly clothes and makeup (something I hate doing!) and started with the emotional blackmail when I said I couldn’t make it. It’s escalated from there and he’s pushed me so much with the manipulation that I’ve ended up being honest about my thoughts and feelings which he has taken issue with.

Well, your trans friend is following the tra playbook of trying to bully you into agreement and submission. You aren't allowed your own opinion, apparently

This man certainly deserves to hear all that!!
But he sounds quite sinister and threatening so I think I would just humour him and drop out of his life.

This is all very telling isn’t it.

Of course all women loooove shopping for clothes and make up...soo girly girlfriend 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩

What a knob he is.

Good advice that has all been given in the past.

He clearly has long time mental issues. I have a friend whose son recently declared himself trans and wanting oestrogen on the basis he has been depressed and struggling. There is a clearly a belief that ‘transitioning’ will solve other issues, it won’t. He will still be the same person.

Do you have a friendship that extends outside of supporting and enabling him within his issues?

Just block. I couldn’t be doing with the drama.

This is what happens if you are supportive. It's never enough. You are not allowed your own thoughts, your own opinion, your own rights. You are only acceptable if you stay in the supporting role.

You are basically his support animal.