How to respond to men "helping" when I've said no

[noraheggerty]

This happens to me a fair bit. A man will ask if he can help, often it's to carry something for me, or lift a bag onto the luggage rack etc. If I would actually like some help then I'll say yes. But usually I don't, so I say no. They ask a second time; I say, again, politely, "No, thank you".

Then they literally manhandle my property, taking it off me, pulling on the bag straps to wrest it from my grasp!

Is this normal? I am a fair bit stronger than the average woman, so perhaps with some things I might be carrying or doing, they just can't believe I don't need help? But the other day someone did this with my violin case! Which is not in any sense a heavy item. So it's not always that. Not that it makes any difference why they are doing it, it's still crap but I'm just wondering if I get it more than other women.

Do you all experience this and if so, what do you say to them? Until now I've tended to just let them do it because I don't want to be rude. But I've decided I'm not going to put up with it any more, so I could use some advice on how to respond.

How often does this actually happen OP?

And you’re saying that they offer, you decline and they grab your luggage out of your hand?

I have only had this from people I know, otherwise they might look at me a bit funny for saying no, but that's it.
People are weird.

Fix them with a steely gaze and snap "I did not ask for your help thank you!"

That must have been particularly galling with the violin- I understand musicians can be (rightfully) precious about their instruments.

Happened to me the day before yesterday.

Are you a man?

Do you think they're not hearing you say no? I can imagine it as a crazed one off guy but repeatedly?

Yep like every few months or so.

Do you really not experience this? Are you female?

How tall are you - I wonder if it's being short-ish and strong that confuses them

Every few months you have a man manhandle and rustle with you to get luggage out of your hands?

“Confuses them”

how?

You are saying that every few months you are essentially assaulted?

I would shout "Stop! Thief!" if anyone manhandled my property off me.

I'd let them crack on and risk putting their backs out if they are so insistent on doing so!

Gavin de Becker addresses this exact problem on the very first page of The Gift of Fear.

When a woman says 'no' and a man selectively hears something else, he's showing you a massive red flag.

Responses? 'No, thank you'.

'I said "no"'.

If two direct, polite responses don't give sufficent hint then it's time to be a bit forceul. I like 'Get your hands off my belongings'.

I no longer care about being thought rude. I care about the simple expedient of going about my daily business without being approached under any pretext by men. It's not a big ask, nor a difficult thing to respect. Women, after all, apparently have no problem with this.

If I ask someone if they need help and they say 'no', that's it. End of interaction.

Yes, sometimes they do. Like the guy on the tube who shoved himself forcefully against my body and looked as though he was making a beeline for my tote, which I kept moving to the other side of me.

Another woman came to my aid that time.

It can be relentless. And IME, London is the worst for it.

I'm a 5' tall woman! I'm not attractive though that might be the difference tbf.

I've had men ask more than once about lifting something but I've never experienced them wrestling me for my bag.

I often get offers of help. No one in the UK has ever tried to manhandle something out of my hands. In Cambodia and Kenya, yes. In London, no.

I remember when my first child was a toddler in the buggy, and I was waiting for my friend at the bottom of some stairs. I wasn’t actually at the bottom of the stairs (as then I’d be in the way), I was slightly to the side. Son was sleeping so I was just holding the buggy with one hand whilst looking up the steps for my friend. A man just picked the buggy up and started heading up the stairs with it! Didn’t ask me, didn’t say anything… just picked up the buggy and walked off. I actually think I really shouted given the way everyone stopped and looked but I panicked. He was so incredibly offended at my shouting at running and trying to grab the buggy back. Because he was “helping.” And, once I explained, he said he thought I should have just allowed him to finish helping and waiting for my friend at the top of the stairs instead 🫤. So, even when they’re totally in the wrong, they’ll still say it’s you that’s the problem for not going along with it.

Interesting.

Trolls aside, I'm surprised. I seem to be experiencing this more often than others

I can relate to this. Happened to me multiple times yesterday travelling from London to another destination, I did have two suitcases and a young child though so I'm not sure if it would have happened if I was on my own.

I have constant problems in London. Not necessarily with men trying to manhandle my bags: that's only happened once.

But there was the one I struggled to shake off in Charing Cross Station, begging me for help with his 12-week pregnant wife and the hospital (12 weeks?), claiming respectibility via being in the armed forces, and refusing to fuck the hell off when told to. When I met my (female) friend there he persisted until we walked in the direction of the transport police. (Scammer, ofc). But I doubt he'd have been this persistent had we been two men.

Then there was the idiot who sounded me out saying he had back trouble and would I please tie his shoelaces for him? I told him to approach a man.

Then the one who started stroking my (obviously fake) fur coat in the street and followed me for about 4 blocks with a diatribe on animal welfare, becoming increasingly menacing until I retreated into the Waterstones' Ladies' loo in tears and didn't come out for half an hour.

I've been offered 'help' with carrying shopping bags from my trolley into my car boot at Tescos, and received rather an uncharitable response when I said a polite 'no thank you'.

They're out there in the wild, I tell ya!

Sorry I am really aware I don't want to sound like I'm invalidating your experience but multiple times yesterday you said no to am offer of help and they used physical force to take your bags off you anyway? I just can't picture it? Did you not assume you were being robbed?

it’s never happened to me.

I have experienced variations of this, and comments along the lines of "isn't that your husband's job?" often enough to know exactly what OP is talking about and find it grating.

I think the sentiment you want to convey is "I appreciate you want to help, but I really would have preferred to do that myself" or if feeling less nice "hang on, I said no thank you"

But personally I'd rarely bother - it would just prolong an already annoying interaction - and I'm a coward who hates confrontation.

Oh god, don’t get me wrong, I’ve been repeatedly harassed in London, including being assaulted. Scammers, dodgy blokes, weirdos, all very common.

But manhandling my bag after an offer of help? No.

I really resent my personal space being invaded, and I reserve the right to be resistant to that. These men are reliant upon our politeness and cooperation.

And no, I don't appreciate their invasive behaviour. This is a different thing entirely from basic politeness, like holding a door open (which I do for both sexes - whoever happens to be coming through that door behind me).

This is about men who seem incapable of hearing the word 'no'. IMO this shouldn't be entertained unless the alternative represents a real perceived risk to your safety.