How to respond to men "helping" when I've said no

[noraheggerty]

This happens to me a fair bit. A man will ask if he can help, often it's to carry something for me, or lift a bag onto the luggage rack etc. If I would actually like some help then I'll say yes. But usually I don't, so I say no. They ask a second time; I say, again, politely, "No, thank you".

Then they literally manhandle my property, taking it off me, pulling on the bag straps to wrest it from my grasp!

Is this normal? I am a fair bit stronger than the average woman, so perhaps with some things I might be carrying or doing, they just can't believe I don't need help? But the other day someone did this with my violin case! Which is not in any sense a heavy item. So it's not always that. Not that it makes any difference why they are doing it, it's still crap but I'm just wondering if I get it more than other women.

Do you all experience this and if so, what do you say to them? Until now I've tended to just let them do it because I don't want to be rude. But I've decided I'm not going to put up with it any more, so I could use some advice on how to respond.

Not men in the street. Usually people I'm doing something with. The violin example was a man in a recording studio.

Another recent example: I arrived at a place where I was volunteering to do some conservation work, and a man came to meet me and my partner at the bottom of the hill. He offered to take a bag for me and I gave him one. He then pulled at another of my bags saying "I'll take this one too". I said "no thanks" and suggested he take one of my partner's bags instead, as my partner (male) was still carrying all of his! But the man kept pulling and said "no no let me take it". I did let him, because I didn't want to start my time there with a fight.

As you have seen from my follow-up posts in this thread, I've already been reflecting on that.

With some discomfort, because I think women are too often held responsible for men's behaviour.

Men are more muscular and it is easier for them to do it. There is little enough kindness in the world - just accept and be gracious.

It does not mean:

• they think you are pathetic
• they think women are feeble
• they are trying to hit on you
• you are betraying the sisterhood by saying thank you

If a man were trying to do something that you could do more easily - e.g. extract something small out of an awkward place as your fingers were smaller - do you think they would refuse? Why would they?

Sorry to ask, but do you have largish boobs? That may be why you're getting this treatment and others aren't. I'm short, flat, have an angry Irish Colleen's face and rarely get this.

I’m 5”1 so I sometimes get men asking if they can reach something down for me that I’m visibly struggling to get hold of, I’m always grateful for this.

If I clearly said no though I’m not sure I’d be happy with a man ignoring my wishes and cracking on regardless, I think it might depend on the exact situation though.

In general though I think it’s nice if someone offers to help you and I wouldn’t want to discourage men from being considerate and offering up help.

In contrast, I really appreciated a man carrying a case down the stairs for me, without a word said. He took it from my hand without a nod or word and then released it at the foot of the stairs, leaving me free to support elderly mother down.

By saying nothing, he relieved me of the burden of embarrassment and thanking him.

But I appreciate the irritation when someone ignores your decision.

Haha yes I do

Just because you don't understand why someone says no, that doesn't mean their no doesn't count.

It just means you (like all humans) have limited experience and imagination, and can't always understand why people behave as they do.

No means no, regardless.

Regardless of the woman's reason and regardless of the man's intention or whether he means well or thinks women are pathetic or doesn't think this.

It just means no

Women should do strength training. It’s incredibly important to use your muscles. The trope that we’re weak and (more weirdly) should reman weak is a very bad one.

Use your brain, use your muscles, stay active.

And that’s the line I use that works, “I’m stronger than I look” with a smile.

Thank you @MrsTerryPratchett

I agree 💯

I lift weights myself, and enjoy doing heavy work and feeling my strength. Unless I'm in pain or in danger of dropping things or hurting myself, I'd much rather do my own heavy work/carrying than have someone else do it for me. Simply for the pleasure and health benefits of the exercise!

I am much more like this than most women, which is probably why I get so much manhandling. Some men seem to have a problem with a woman being like this.

I’m so glad you addressed this crap! You did it far more politely than I would have . Fucks sake “more muscular and find it easier” … it’s easier for everyone to LISTEN to others when they make their wants and needs clear. A no is a no. Women should be “gracious” and thank men for their unwarranted and unwanted interference (because it isn’t help if I don’t want it) fuck that bullshit. I don’t give a flying fuck what the supposedly helpful men may think of me- whether it be pathetic, feeble, fuckable or feminist- I said No, Thank you (that is as polite and gracious as it gets mate)

@kittenkipping Absolutely.

@Mischance My partner plays the mandolin (a small instrument that's easier to play with smaller hands). I guess I should grab it off him and play it for him because women are better at fiddly things and find it easier. And he should bloody well appreciate it because it's no judgment of him as a musician, no not at all! I'm only trying to help 😂

I live in London and don’t drive so I’m always on the bus/train/tube. I travel a lot for work so I’m often lugging a suitcase. I’m a woman. This has never happened to me! I don’t even get offers of help let alone have my luggage wrestled from my grasp. I can only recall one occasion in my life of anyone even offering to help and the offerer was a woman. I don’t disbelieve you OP but I’m surprised this is such a regular occurrence

No, absolutely not. Men need to leave women alone when they say no.

I am 5’2 and get this ALL the time - I’m small but strong. If I needed help, I am an adult, I would ask for it. Hate it when I have declined help and they still try. So I now say the following ‘no thank you, lifting heavy items helps relieve my trapped wind’ and smile :)

I’m not sure why that would be happening to you at all. It has never happened to me. Once I have said no thank you people do back off - although most of the time I say yes that would be great - especially luggage. I note you didn’t say if you were in the UK or not. Could it be cultural?

I'm small and middle aged and I get it a lot.

I think it's a London thing, and it seems to be young men of any background and older men who were not born in the UK. It is not malicious so much as an inability to consider that their assessment of whether I should need help may not be mine.

These days I just roll with it.

Despite the myth of unfriendliness, Londoners on the tube are almost performatively considerate, so if I pause at the bottom of stairs with a suitcase or bulky item 9 times out of 10 someone will swoop in to help.

I never ever get it. Maybe its not such a bad thing having a resting bitch face.

I had offers of help in the past when DD was small. She has additional needs so obviously people feel for me and want to help 😂 I usually say yes. If I’m saying no it’s clearly the end and I don’t get any extra offers. You have to practice your “no” OP.
I can’t imagine someone wrestling my suitcase or a pushchair off me. Just can’t.

From your posts I think you may have nailed it yourself, OP - be less like your mother and more like yourself!

I’m a 5’1” blonde (albeit 64 now) - I’ve not really had a problem with this but I’m not in London much. I’ll ask for help if I need it but if someone offers and I don’t need it, a cheerful ‘no, I’m good thanks’ or suchlike seems to work. (If it didn’t I’ve got a backup hard stare)

The only time I can remember getting really cross re me carrying something it wasn’t because an unwanted offer of help. I was carrying a sack of bird food - maybe 15kg, not massive - out of the RSPB building to the car, DH holding the door open for me. One of a couple coming towards us said to him ‘you should be carrying that’. I was livid - snapped back ‘no he shouldn’t, he’s waiting for a heart op’. Why the heck would someone butt in like that? - I wasn’t struggling, DH was giving me all the help I needed by holding the door, it’s all he could do at the time.

I've not had this too often, but it does sometimes happen.

The most irritating thing for me is when I am on the train to my mother's. I put my case in the floor to ceiling racks where I can easily reach it, not the overhead ones where I can't. I'm barely 5'2" so they are still too much of a stretch.

The number of people offering to help me put it up in the overhead racks and virtually out of my own reach is just silly. It's not done maliciously, but I do have to be quite firm in explaining that I want my things within my own reach, not somewhere where I will have to rely on asking other people to lift it down for me. It takes control away from me.

Once I have it safely stashed in the floor to ceiling rack I still have to keep an eagle eye on it at every station because some people do just get on and go to move it into the overhead racks without even asking so they can use the place for their own stuff. I do have to be firm. I don't want it put where I can't reach it.

I would never just say NO.
I always look them in the eye, smile and say, "Thanks for asking but I manage very well on my own."
Or "No, you're very kind but I really enjoy the exercise.
Or "No, Thank you, I'm fine to lift that."

I find many young women ask to help too.

Oh, if we're sharing stories of being molested, harassed, interrupted and interfered with by random men ... it used to happen to me a lot. Not now I'm significantly less attractive and live in a slow, small town. My most memorable (possibly - it's a strong field) was a guy on a packed Tube, who stuck his hand up my skirt and a finger up my vagina. I grabbed the hand by the wrist, held it right up and asked loudly "Whose hand is this?"

I got a smattering of applause 😁 As the doors opened, the very average owner of said hand shuffled off as fast as he could get through the crowd. It was a genuine walk of shame.

OP and anyone else who has these difficulties: you need an assertiveness course! I firmly believe that all women, and perhaps men as well, should learn actual assertiveness instead of getting stranded between aggression and compliance. Assertiveness sometimes can be aggressive or appeasing; the thing is to have your full range of options available and to use them.

All assertiveness classes for women include a session on saying No.

Is that not just theft? Somebody walking off a plane with your bag and then never giving it back to you doesn’t sound particularly helpful.

I am much more like this than most women, which is probably why I get so much manhandling. Some men seem to have a problem with a woman being like this.

How do you know you're so much more special than other women, OP? ;)

I am also strong and able to lift heavy things and I never get this behaviour from men. I rarely get offers of help with carrying my stuff. When I do, I either accept with thanks, or I'll say, oh that's so kind of you but I'm fine, or similar. Sometimes they'll ask if I'm sure, but that's as pushy as they ever get!

I can't imagine someone just grabbing my stuff anyway - I would assume I was being mugged.