How to respond to men "helping" when I've said no

[noraheggerty]

This happens to me a fair bit. A man will ask if he can help, often it's to carry something for me, or lift a bag onto the luggage rack etc. If I would actually like some help then I'll say yes. But usually I don't, so I say no. They ask a second time; I say, again, politely, "No, thank you".

Then they literally manhandle my property, taking it off me, pulling on the bag straps to wrest it from my grasp!

Is this normal? I am a fair bit stronger than the average woman, so perhaps with some things I might be carrying or doing, they just can't believe I don't need help? But the other day someone did this with my violin case! Which is not in any sense a heavy item. So it's not always that. Not that it makes any difference why they are doing it, it's still crap but I'm just wondering if I get it more than other women.

Do you all experience this and if so, what do you say to them? Until now I've tended to just let them do it because I don't want to be rude. But I've decided I'm not going to put up with it any more, so I could use some advice on how to respond.

It's never happened to me but I've never commuted by train long term, I'm also very plain with resting grumpy face. Are you particularly attractive/petite looking op?

I'm guessing you travel on public transport more then most people too.

Multiple times in one day! You must have been fuming.

I get that people want to help if you look laden down & have a kid with you but still, it's up to you if you want help or not and no means no!

I often carry a lot of stuff, as I cycle and take trains everywhere, I don't drive. Maybe this is why I get it more than others. No kids though

That sounds terrifying

Damn. I'm sorry to hear that.

Some men are just incapable of leaving women alone. These days I try not to go to London unless it's unavoidable - the cost of rail travel is pretty much prohibitive (and trains are also a magnet for creepy, intrusive men)!

I am not a man and nobody of either sex has snatched anything off me to put it away so something odd must be going on if this keeps happening to you.

Yes I use trains a lot. I think that explains the difference in expense somewhat.

I'm not petite exactly, and not pretty, but I'm 5'4" and a lot stronger than I look. Also, I have a terrible habit of smiling at strangers, and smiling nervously when I'm in a situation that I find uncomfortable. Which some men probably take as mixed messages when my mouth is saying no.

But there i go looking to my own behaviour and demeanor, to explain it. Female socialisation right there

What the Op is describing it akin to assault

or attempted theft

and happens “every few months”

Trains ARE a magnet. Something about women being trapped in there. I remember the days of carriages with no corridor so you were trapped in until the next station <shudder>

Maybe a prolonged no in a lowered voice? Like you’re talking to a bad dog 😂

This happens to my daughter every time she comes to and fro uni. She has a suitcase and must travel through a few cities with changes etc. she is petite and beautiful. Men want to be chivalrous and help the pretty lady regardless of if she wants it. I have witnessed her polite no, her reiteration of no and her then having a man either reach over her to grab the case or yes, attempt to wrestle it from her to carry it to the top of the escalator. All whilst reassuring her “ don’t be silly! Let me help you! I’m not a thief I’m here to give you a hand” and should she “win” the tussle it’s often met with hostility “ungrateful bitch! Can’t even help a woman anymore!”. Meanwhile the disabled middle aged fat woman behind her (me) can barely get the driver of the coach to reach in to the hold and bring my case to the front.

Which is completely unacceptable I agree

And…. Bizarre that happens so frequently

Thanks for sharing this cos so many people are swearing it never happens!

I'm 47. You've got me thinking though. When it happened the day before yesterday I was wearing a low cut colourful dress. Currently I'm wearing baggy leggings covered in dust and have splodges of black Hammerite paint up my arm. I wonder if I'd get the same treatment in this state.

Maybe swap 'appreciate' for 'understand'?

Yes it is different to holding the door open.

And I do think this comes in different forms including the genuinely clueless - the guy taking the baby down the stairs for example. And people don't like to admit fault, so the conversation is quite likely to turn unpleasant. Which rightly or wrongly would spoil my journey.

That said, I really respect women that can hold their own when confronted with this, and do think it's the right thing to do.

What would you say?

ODFOD

Yes I have had this.

i use a wheelchair so possibly they just ignore what I say/are ignorant.

i tend to shout at loud volume.

(does not apply to people who ask and I say yes to the help).

particularly fucking hate prople who move me in my wheelchair. Nearly decked the last person to do that.

Channel that feistiness in to this multiple instances of men wrestling luggage out for your hands Op!

Christ that sounds awful.

My kid knew at 5 that touching a wheelchair is like touching a person, it requires express invitation.

WTF is wrong with people.

Occasionally a woman will offer but like you say, it's only if I'm actually struggling (getting bike on train can be a genuine struggle). Same as I would offer help to a women, or indeed a man in that situation

It happened to me last week with a carry on, on a plane. The bloke just picked it up and walked off with it before I could say anything. I couldn’t find it when we disembarked and had to raise it with lost property at the airport which meant we almost missed our connecting flight. I have had to pay €80-ish to get the bloody thing shipped to a relative’s house back home as we have no shipping address at our destination. As a result of his princely, chivalrous behaviour, DD(3) is going to spend the next 6 months without all her favourite cuddly toys. So fucking helpful.

Oh I had that recently as well! My partner and I were both carrying a lot of stuff (on the way back from a festival) and he had a sore back so I was carrying more than half of it. Shock! Horror!

Anyone would think we were breaking a fundamental law of nature, from the astounded comments we got 😂

Depends on the situation. These days if a strange man approaches me in the street asking me for something, my default response is 'ask a man'. I've had one of them persist in the past, to which I repeated 'then why not ask a man? Why have you made a beeline for the nearest lone woman?' Not much they can really say in response to that.

I've said, very loudly, 'get your hands off my bag!' Sounds like an accusation of theft and in most circumstances this will immediately make them back off.

To the bloke who tried to engage me in chat whilst wearing headphones with my nose buried in a book (this has happened on more than one occasion): 'I'm not up for a conversation, thank you'. On one such occasion he called me everything from a stuck up bitch to a 'fucking ugly cunt', and I quote.

Usually a 'no, thank you' followed up by an 'I said no' will suffice.

But I'm now finding that the older I get the fewer the fucks I have left to give. The younger me wouldn't have said 'boo'. I find it strangely liberating. But really - all women ask is to go about our daily business unaccosted. This isn't an outlandish expectation, but even so seems it's too much for some men. As for those who bewail 'men will be afraid to approach you' (bring it on) and 'you'll soon complain when men no longer notice you!' No, I bloody well won't 😂

It happened to me the other night but I refused mostly because I didn’t want to inconvenience him. I was unpacking the car after a holiday and trying to bring in a load of bags in one go. A man walking his dog said, ‘here, can I help you!’ I said no, I was ok but he tied his dog’s leash round a lamppost and helped anyway. There wasn’t any malice in him, he just wanted to help and actually I’m glad he did.

If I see a person struggling, I’ll often ask if I can help. If they say no, I just drop it. But I can also understand if someone ‘insisted’ out of kindness.