Struggling with trans friend

[Llamallamadingdong]

I have a friend (male) who has decided that they are actually female.

They’ve felt this way for many years now and confided in me and have not told anyone else. Recently had their first gender clinic appointment and have been told that the clinic will not help until they have at least tried to present as female (so far they have messed about with some clothes and makeup alone at home but never gone out in public)

Anyway they recently approached me and asked if I would help pick an outfit, do makeup and help with hair and then go out with them trying to present as female.

The problem is I just can’t do it. Fundamentally I don’t truly believe that we can change sex and I feel like I’m supporting a weird fantasy. Not sure what I want from this thread, I seem to be the only GC person in my friendship group and I feel like I’m a horrible person for potentially denying someone something they really want.

All.that brain stuff is nonsense, there's very little difference.

The PA response and guilt tripping is a separate issue I think, and one that’s potentially as or more serious. You’re genuinely busy at the moment with no headspace to take on something that this person presumably wants to be both sensitive and time consuming; if he can’t respect that, and either find another friend to go with, wait until you’re a bit freer, or go alone- then he doesn’t respect your time and your friendship. He wants you to serve some role on his timescale.

Maybe say look, you obviously want to do this right now and I can’t be available at the moment, so bog off and find someone else.

There's unlikely to be any biological reason why a white person would feel like a black person. Male/female is a much bigger difference physically and hormonally.

Based on your update op that he can be a bit agressive, I would quickly shut this conversation down and potentially end the friendship tbh, citing his tone is unacceptable.

Otherwise it would have been interesting to open a discussion with him about how he thinks hair and makeup makes someone present as female, when many females don’t wear makeup, just tie up their hair and live in jeans/leggings,hoodies rather than skirts and dresses.

It's also entirely possible that he genuinely feels like a woman

How would he know what it's like to "genuinely feel like a woman"? Only genuine women can genuinely feel like women, he can only imagine it.

And this needs to be stressed, because imagination - i.e., fantasy - is what we're dealing with here.

People are free to enjoy or endure whatever fantasies they wish. But they shouldn't oblige other people to accept their fantasies as reality and play an active role in their games, if they'd rather not.

Maybe your view on trans people has been negative since you had a horrible experience while in a relationship, I also had an abusive relationship but this 'person' was of the male gender (i was gas lit, spat at, physically beat on, mentally abused and forced to wear plain cloths, called all the names under the sun) so should I then have a huge problem with all men in general?. The actions of one do not speak for the many and in having a problem with all trans people because one treated you like dirt is most likely what the abuser wants, to plant the seed of hate and watch it grow. We are all individuals, dont let the hate of one sicko dictate the lives of thoes with real gender issues.
Maybe the O.P's friend has asked her for help because she can see that it makes her uncomfortable (for reasons they have stated) and this is an attempt to open their mind and eyes to different lifestyles and alternative ways of life, its not always about the worst cased reasons you can think of!. I hope you heal and i also hope you can get passed this.

Well, I've read a couple of studies from seemingly reputable sources. One was I believe the European Society of Endocrinology and they said they'd concluded that transwomen have unconventional brains.

The other study found that TW had a lot more similarities with the typical female brain than most men do.

What are you saying is not very different? Women's brains and TW brains? Male and female brains are markedly different, even if we just look at hormones. Look how characteristically differently male mammals act.

Have you got any links? People always try and debunk the studies but I've never seen a proper analysis, just one opinion piece from a GC feminist which was kinda wordy and a bit light on the science.

Tell him a mature (mindset) woman mostly enjoys shopping alone so practise on that 🙃

I have a lovely friend who wanted to go shopping with me to “find her style”. She decided I had a good style and I’d be able to help her pick out clothes and makeup etc. the thing is, I couldn’t think of anything worse especially as I shopped online a lot of the time. So I was honest and just said

“tbh lovely friend, I hate big shopping trips going in and out of multiple stores and changing rooms trying to find clothes, I buy a lot online so it’s really not something I’d like to do.”

I‘d maybe try that approach if you’re nervous, it’s more neutral. If he gets arsey just say another friend might be more suited to it as surely he doesn’t want you to spend the day doing something you really don’t enjoy just for his benefit, it wouldn’t be fun for either of you. The fact ye already get passive aggressive is a bit of a red flag for me, you need to shut that bullshit down and be firm about not being spoken to like that and try another friend as you’ve now said no.

Tell him any texts guilting and aggressive comments are not acceptable nor how friends behave. I don't know where you are in the country but if it's NW near Manchester there are clubs along Canal street where cross dressers meet to practice make-up and dress and help with suggetsions to each other. AMybe he needs to look for somewhere like that where people with real experience can help him

Shame? No shame is needed here. Friends have a right to ask for things and friends have a right to say no..It's not like the friend is asking for a life saving organ transplant! They're not in a desert asking for a sip of their friends water. Let's not shame people for being brave enough to set a boundary it takes courage to say no especially when someone may have been encouraged to be a bit of a people pleaser (not accusing O P of this but I gave my own experience in this thread and I certainly am someone who struggled in that area. It takes courage to recover from that).

Never be forced to do anything you don’t want to do.
He sounds like a bit of a bully to me.
I would end the friendship tbh.

My brother is unfortunately on the trans women journey. I say unfortunately because it hasn't so far made him relaxed and happy, just aggressive, sarcastic and still seeking mental support via booze, cigarettes and now ket.

He apparently has a woman friend who accompanies him on shopping trips, charity shops, keeping an eye out in changing rooms because as a 6ft2 bulky person he is suddenly vulnerable in a way he has never experienced.

We worry about him, her and how both of the are dealing with different mental health problems or vulnerabilities.

Please don't get involved with your friend. With my brother, it's escalated from shopping, to watching a film, a sleepover, lending her night clothes, alcohol and ketamine. It's all for his kicks and her loneliness is being exploited.

You know what. Many of us do. We understand the issues perfectly. That is part of the point.

The fact that you call supporting a trans person is “upholding a lie” demonstrates perfectly that you dont understand it at all.

Thats why people keep saying this to you, because it’s true.

Interesting that he's chosen the OP isn't it. He's picked the most GC woman in a group to affirm himself with no consideration of her feelings.

Well i am a woman and don't wear make up or faff around with hair and clothes (clean and presentable). So I think presenting as a woman doesn't involve make up and skirts and so on. More important might be that someone (you perhaps) asks your friend what they think presenting as a woman means? If it's clothing and make up then that's dressing up games.

He's picked you to be his handmaiden. Hell no.

This is something he needs to do on his own.

Not sure why you’ve quoted me as your comment isn’t relevant to what I said. You might find it acceptable for a friend to get angry with you and engage in emotional blackmail if you don’t want to go shopping, but most people don’t behave like that to their friends.

Agree with this. I'd be permanently unavailable for shopping trips.

right.

Some women have naturally occurring high levels of testosterone, it doesn't make them more aggressive or risk taking or assertive than other women. It's not like OP is a doctor anyway. Nothing stopping the friend seeking help and support elsewhere.

My abuser was also of the male gender. He wanted me to accept he was a woman in every way. He wanted total capitulation. He got off on it. So no. Ops friend is a bully wanting her to participate in his fetish. The abusive and nasty messages are a big clue on that. Would you support anyone else bullying OP into something she didn’t want to do or is that reserved for those special males. Would you support OPs friend if he was trying to get her to join him in BDSM parties? And bullying her if she said no? Or any other “alternative lifestyle”? If not, why not?

I’m surprised at the naivity of posters who think it isn’t a sex thing, to quote Alan Partridge “they’re sex people”. Men dressing up in women’s clothes and make up is always a sex thing and if you think it’s not, well I just think you’ve probably lived a very nice, but somewhat sheltered life.

Unconventional brains do not equal female brains.
The studies I have seen A) don't control for homosexuality & B) merely say that average TW brains are shifted towards female structure. I.e. in whatever metric they use, if an average male brain is a 10, and an average female brain is a 20, the average TW brain might come out as a 12, which will be hailed as a move towards female structure, when obviously 12 is still closer to male than female.
But in all of these studies the differences are small, and there is great overlap between M & F samples, so there can be no suggestion that the majority of people whose brains are further away from their own sex average are all trans, or that having such a brain could make you trans.

Don't get into discussions with him. It's not your job to help him dress up and it's not your job to question him either.

You're not comfortable and he's not being nice. It's OK to step away.