Struggling with trans friend

[Llamallamadingdong]

I have a friend (male) who has decided that they are actually female.

They’ve felt this way for many years now and confided in me and have not told anyone else. Recently had their first gender clinic appointment and have been told that the clinic will not help until they have at least tried to present as female (so far they have messed about with some clothes and makeup alone at home but never gone out in public)

Anyway they recently approached me and asked if I would help pick an outfit, do makeup and help with hair and then go out with them trying to present as female.

The problem is I just can’t do it. Fundamentally I don’t truly believe that we can change sex and I feel like I’m supporting a weird fantasy. Not sure what I want from this thread, I seem to be the only GC person in my friendship group and I feel like I’m a horrible person for potentially denying someone something they really want.

As stated they have the rule as part of the informed consent process, so that they are satisfied the patient is fully committed to transition and understands the consequences of going out and about presenting as a woman.
The patient has to demonstrate this through real world experience prior to being eligible for medical intervention.

there is no such thing as a trans woman or trans man

This is a concerning and demonstrably false statement.

There are of course people who label themselves “trans”. It doesn’t mean that is real in any material way. I don’t see them as their claimed “gender”, I see them as their sex.

So what is a “transwoman” or a “transman”? How can someone know they are “really” the opposite sex? They have no experience of being that sex so how do they know? To say someone is “living as a man” or “living as a woman” would only be true if there was only one way to live as a man or a woman. If you take away all the outdated, sexist stereotypes, how exactly does someone live as a man or a woman? They can only live as their idea of living as a man or a woman, which is pointless.

No , being trans has nothing to do with “ideas” or “stereotypes”.

So what is it then? Can you define trans in a way which will be relevant for both young teenage girls claiming they are boys and older middle aged men claiming they are girls? If trans is nothing to do with stereotypes, why do trans people claim they knew they were trans because they liked stuff stereotypically liked by the opposite sex. Suzuki green claimed she knew her son was trans at 2 because he played with dolls. Many other trans people say the same. So if trans is not do do with stereotypes, are you suggesting there is a biological reason for people claiming to be trans? In that case, would that negate detransitioners?

why do trans people claim they knew they were trans because they liked stuff stereotypically liked by the opposite sex

That’s not why people claim to know they are trans. Likes and interests have nothing to do with being trans

That’s odd. It’s exactly how all the trans people I’ve discussed this with describe it. Do you know any trans people?

So again. What is it? Can you define trans in a way that will include the wide range of people who claim they are trans? Are you saying there is a biological cause? But there cannot be because then how would you explain detransitioners? Was Suzie green wrong for saying her son was trans because he played with dolls? That is what she has very publicly claimed. I await your definition of trans with bated breath.

trans people I’ve discussed this with describe it

thenyou are not listening.

Do you know any trans people?

of course

It’s not my job to explain it to you- there are plenty of resources freely accessible.

I simply feel responsible to counter the incorrect information and negative stereotypes about trans people repeated over and over again on social media.

Being trans has nothing to do with liking dolls, as Susie Green very well knows

So in other words you have no other explanation that trans is based on a lot of sexist, outdated stereotypes. Got it. If there are so many recourses, it wouldn’t take you a minute to drop the links would it?

Exactly.

@Blessthismess2 Will you at least post a link to 'the science'. That should be good.

'there are plenty of resources freely accessible'

Where?

My guess is pink news and the clownfish article from new scientist.

So in other words you have no other explanation that trans is based on a lot of sexist, outdated stereotypes

That is incorrect.

Being trans has nothing to do with stereotypes.

So what is it then at the risk of repeating myself? As you have no evidence to the contrary, I’m sticking with it’s to do with sexist and outdated stereotypes that massively disadvantage women and children and that gender identity movement is a men’s rights movement

That's what I thought.

He's getting a kick out of pushing your boundaries.

As above.

i understand your beliefs about trans people and what being trans is.

It’s really unfortunate that people have such misinformed and negative ideas about what it is to be trans.

It’s not the consenting women they want. What’s the fun and challenge in that? It’s the non consenting women that they want to make compliant. They want non consenting women to say TWAW because then they’ve “won”. It’s why there’s a lot of male rage when women say no.

So show me evidence to the contrary. You have said there are loads of resources so a few links would very well be easy for you. You seem very convinced as to what trans is so please do inform me.

I'm sure this has been said already but:
Regardless of the person's sex/gender presentation/ mismatch
I hate clothes shopping. I never do it for myself except about every 3 years if I have an occasion I'll buy a new dress.
If ANYONE asked me to go shopping with them it would be a solid "no, why would you choose me?!"
How many women actually go clothes shopping with their friends these days anyway? I did with one work friend in my twenties and disliked it even then

Please type “transgender” into the search engine of any scientific/ medical/ academic library- you will find 10,000s of scientific studies/ resources .

No. Why should I. I know trans is related to sexist stereotypes and you’ve said nothing to change my mind. I gave you an example. suzie green. You can’t even seem to define trans in any meaningful way.

“As a woman I feel free to dance at parties, I couldn’t do that before.”

”I just don’t feel like a girl. I’m different… [in what ways?]… “I just don’t feel like I want to wear what they wear. I don’t like hanging out in groups with them. I don’t act like them.”

”I don’t want to be a man, I don’t like what men do.”

I can’t recall verbatim all the conversations I’ve had attempting to understand. These stand out because of who I had them with/ the context around them. But the others have been along similar lines.

So however you understand what being trans means, the trans people I have spoken with obviously feel differently; and their feelings are heavily informed by sex stereotypes.

and their feelings are heavily informed by sex stereotypes

this is not true