Struggling with trans friend

[Llamallamadingdong]

I have a friend (male) who has decided that they are actually female.

They’ve felt this way for many years now and confided in me and have not told anyone else. Recently had their first gender clinic appointment and have been told that the clinic will not help until they have at least tried to present as female (so far they have messed about with some clothes and makeup alone at home but never gone out in public)

Anyway they recently approached me and asked if I would help pick an outfit, do makeup and help with hair and then go out with them trying to present as female.

The problem is I just can’t do it. Fundamentally I don’t truly believe that we can change sex and I feel like I’m supporting a weird fantasy. Not sure what I want from this thread, I seem to be the only GC person in my friendship group and I feel like I’m a horrible person for potentially denying someone something they really want.

Your dissertation is your priority now. If your friend cannot support you with this I am at a loss to understand why you should support them.

i am old school and unless you are a certain type of fish or west African frog you cannot change sex. If he asks again just say no my dissertation is the priority’. Once submitted & if he asks again ‘what did you have in mind?’

he is getting stroppy as his male entitlement, he does not know he has, means you should drop everything to help.

I think I understand what has triggered these feelings.

You've got so much going on in your own life at the moment, and when you've told other friends you're too busy to meet up at the moment they've accepted that without complaint, and he's the only one who has responded "but what about meeee?"

It is quite hard not to see the latest revelation that he identifies as trans as part of the same pattern of behaviour.

Being trans is asking everyone else to validate your perception of yourself, even though that perception is completely at odds with what they can see with their own eyes. The idea that a trans person's personal identity has to take precedence over everything else, including the needs of other groups, is fundamentally egotistical. And it goes hand in hand with expecting a very busy person to drop everything at a time when they have much more important stuff going on and take you shopping so you can feel like one of the girls.

It's hard to see what benefit you are really getting out of this friendship, to be honest.

I would be tempted to say something like, "Sam, I can tell that you really want to go shopping. The thing is, I've had to tell all my friends that I don't have time to socialise at the moment, because I'm trying to finish my dissertation at the same time as being a busy mum with childcare responsibilities. Nobody else has had a problem with this. You are the only person putting pressure on me to do things when I've already made it clear I don't have time at the moment. When I've handed in my dissertation I'm going to want to relax, see friends and family I haven't been able to see for a while, and enjoy what's left of the summer. Shopping isn't going to be high on my list of priorities. I wish you all the best with your transition but I think you need to find another friend who is better placed to support you with this. Good luck!"

And then quietly step back from the friendship.

Pass-agg back- ‘I think you must not have seen my other message about how busy I am and I’m not seeing people? I assume you didn’t see it since you wouldn’t have just had a go at me anyway, right?’

I did read it, thank you. I actually read the whole thing where he agrees to do it and asks the OP to help him pretend to be a woman by changing his clothes - perhaps you missed that part?

Yes, the clinic is sexist - and so is OP's friend, and so is any man who believes it's possible to become a woman.

This is excellent.

The cross dressing man and the clinic are both sexist because they both think that putting on a dress is somehow part of ‘becoming a woman’.

Dont be absolutely ridiculous. Thats not why the clinic have that rule- they have the rule as part of the informed consent process, so that they are satisfied the patient is fully committed to transition and understands the consequences of going out and about presenting as a woman. Of course it’s an unreasonable requirement for many reasons but it’s nothing to do with doctors thinking putting on a dress makes you a woman 🤦🏼‍♀️

How I've 'lived as a woman*' (🙄) this week so far:

Met with a client
Planned the work
Went to B&Q for Hammerite
Developed my website
Went to a gig
Sorted a visit to Mum's coming up
Bought, cooked and ate food
Showered
Watered the garden
Watched telly
Read a couple of books
Took stuff to charity shop
Generally wearing a variety of trousers, jersey t-shirt tops, flat sandals
Oh yes, and got a prescription to deal with yet more bastard menopause symptoms.

*What does that phrase even MEAN? 🤷‍♀️

For what it's worth I agree it is probably useful for a trans identifying man to understand the consequences of going out dressed in women's clothes, namely the fact that it doesn't mean people will see him as a woman.

But it isn't the OP's job to help with this.

It sounds like you have insight into how these gender clinics work?

What is ‘presenting as a woman’ if not an utterly sexist use of stereotypes to make a facsimile?

How do young girls who identify as male ‘present as a man’?

If I were in your shoes op I would send him this link
https://lgbausa.substack.com/p/the-trans-movement-myth-vs-fact
You'll probably need to block him afterwards

Haha! I am definitely ‘absolutely ridiculous’ in a variety of ways but here I’m just being logical.

Why is there an assumption by the clinic that the trans identifying person is going to ‘dress like a woman’? What does ‘dress like a woman’ mean? How does this show commitment to transition? Can the trans identifying man show commitment to transition by wearing jeans and hoodies and no make up and having short hair? If not, why not? Does it mean their womanly essence is not as strong as someone else’s?

I’m wondering what kind of advice gender clinics give to men wanting to transition, regarding “living as a woman”. I wonder if they’re encouraged to wear dresses and make-up or aren’t really given advice per se and just told to “present how they feel” 🤔. Tbf I know a trans woman who I’ve never seen wear a dress or heavy makeup, just long hair and foundation and sometimes tight tops. He doesn’t pass though, but I don’t think he’d be any more likely to pass if he got all dolled up, in fact I think he’d look more like a cross dresser or drag queen and less like a trans woman…which is maybe what he’s going for

Getting all dolled up - the makeup, big hair, nails, heels, push up/push in/padding, undies, sashaying ... it's just as much drag when women do it.

(Except women in the spotlight are often criticised for not doing it - see the recent reaction to Pamela Anderson and Ulrika Jonsson not doing it.)

Transwomen often rush towards and pile on the drag, while transmen rush away and shrug it off. Off with the hair, makeup, trussing-up performance - the drag.

It's not real, in either direction. It's female-fakery. Smoke and mirrors.

He doesn’t sound like a very nice person, trans or not. I’d distance myself.

Expecting the law to back up your access to women’s spaces or give you a certificate saying you are a woman, when you are a man, is a political position based on ideology, yes.

The most criminal aspect of this is that it was/is promoted in schools during the most tumultuous time of human life that is puberty. So many young diagnosed and undiagnosed neurodivergent young people caught in this mess! There should be prosecutions,

How lucky for you, not lucky for the women directly affected by men who pretend to be women using the wrong single sex facilities in hospitals, prisons, sports, loos, changing rooms...

What would the response be if you said "I'd love to meet up, you're welcome round for dinner / walk the dog with me / I'm stuck for a babysitter but you can come round for a catch up" would that offer be accepted? Or does he only want to meet to do what he wants to do when he wants to do it? I've had that with a friend and ended up feeling used.

then go out with them trying to present as female.

cool - suggest mountain biking, maybe a climbing wall trip, hiking etc. all sorts of things females like to do rather than be dressed up in heels & make up draped around bars & shops.

There are men who get off on identifying as women. They get off on involving women in this fetish. Did you read the comment upthread where a pp helped her transwoman friend with clothes and makeup until the friend confessed he got sexually aroused talking about clothes and makeup with her. You are being naive if you think this doesn't happen.

Admitting it is a fetish negates all the arguments about trans being an innate state that causes terrible amounts of mental distress that can only be relieved by everyone buying into and affirming the sufferer. Hence all the ‘most marginalised’ and #bekiiiind rhetoric.

He will of course expect to be able to follow you into the women's toilets, changing rooms etc. You'd be his access pass.

Then you'd be getting the looks from women and girls whose space you'd brought him into ...

This is exactly it. The chances that the OP takes him out shopping and he doesn't want to go into women's toilets or changing rooms at some point are basically zero.

And then she's forced into a position where she's expected to facilitate him gaining access to spaces the Supreme Court has said he isn't supposed to be, when she doesn't agree that he should be in those spaces, and the other women there probably don't want him in there either.

It's not just about shopping (which she also doesn't want to do).

But I don't think the OP is asking whether she should do it. She's just complaining that he won't respect her boundaries and asking for advice about how to deal with that.

'Dont be absolutely ridiculous. Thats not why the clinic have that rule- they have the rule as part of the informed consent process, so that they are satisfied the patient is fully committed to transition and understands the consequences of going out and about presenting as a woman. Of course it’s an unreasonable requirement for many reasons but it’s nothing to do with doctors thinking putting on a dress makes you a woman'

@Blessthismess2

So why do they suggest spending time "presenting as a woman" if they don't think wearing a dress makes you one. It is literally impossible to do that anyway. A person is or isn't a woman.

It is not possible to transition from one sex to the other and there is no such thing as a trans woman or trans man.

It enrages me when I think of the state most of my friends were left in after childbirth. Terrible injuries that were deemed "normal" and life long issues with mobility and incontinence dismissed.

How the fuck is it the case that there are resources and funding to pander to the fantasies of misogynistic, selfish men when actual women are being gaslit and told to just get on with it?

They will literally build a "vagina" for a man but won't even stitch a wound competently for a woman? Just fuck off.

They’re separate issues.

That’s not to say they’re not both true.

Vaginoplasty does exist, and women do often receive poor postnatal care, but I’m not sure the two things are linked or need conflating.

For example, vaginoplasty could exist and women’s care improve?