Struggling with trans friend

[Llamallamadingdong]

I have a friend (male) who has decided that they are actually female.

They’ve felt this way for many years now and confided in me and have not told anyone else. Recently had their first gender clinic appointment and have been told that the clinic will not help until they have at least tried to present as female (so far they have messed about with some clothes and makeup alone at home but never gone out in public)

Anyway they recently approached me and asked if I would help pick an outfit, do makeup and help with hair and then go out with them trying to present as female.

The problem is I just can’t do it. Fundamentally I don’t truly believe that we can change sex and I feel like I’m supporting a weird fantasy. Not sure what I want from this thread, I seem to be the only GC person in my friendship group and I feel like I’m a horrible person for potentially denying someone something they really want.

I'm in no way arguing that they have female brains. Tbh, reading back my posts I was probably a bit dogmatic - had just finished a night shift and was a bit tetchy if I'm honest.

I think the whole trans situation is bonkers tbh and should never have been allowed to get to the stage where self ID was even considered or where people were losing their jobs for stating facts like humans can't change sex. And some of the stuff going on with the NHS and in schools is just shocking.

However, I'm still not entirely convinced there's not a biological reason in some cases which is why I was challenging some of the responses dismissing it as a sexual fetish/mental illness. There will be posters on here that were alive when being gay was considered a mental illness. Most of these posters won't agree that gay people are mentally ill despite the fact that science hasn't really definitively proved otherwise but they'll claim that trans individuals are.

I think the reason for this in many cases is unrelated reasons like the toilet thing. However, it's not impossible for somebody to have a condition with a genuine biological basis and still be acting inappropriately, especially when enabled by wider society. It seems to be the case that testosterone has a big effect on sexuality and gender identity and there are studies now concluding that a pre natal lack of testosterone can be observed in many gay males.

So, in spite of all the twitter drama I'm still not entirely convinced it's impossible for somebody to have genuine biological reasons for identifying with the opposite sex. Whether they meet the criteria for being a female as we know it isn't really the point unless we're talking about toilets. Gay men are no doubt different to straight men even if still men, unless you believe them to be genuinely mentally ill.

Ultimately, the fact humans can't change sex isn't necessarily irrefutable proof that it's always a fetish when men feel that way. A transwoman says he feels like a woman, whilst a gay man essentially displays what is in 99% of humans feeling that way a female sexuality. So we say the first is unwell and the second is just gay. It seems an odd distinction to me.

It kinda feels like saying "OK, he's mentally unwell because he thinks he's a dog. That other guy is fine....he doesn't claim to be a dog, he just walks around on all fours barking".

I agree with the poster who said that this period in time will be judged harshly by future generations. Many will say that we didn’t know any better but many of us do.

The thing that is interesting to me is that people do not realise that their bigotry and hatred is similar to that experienced by black people many years ago when there were arguments about whether they were equal to white people. We are quite rightly disgusted by that. Even in my lifetime I remember people using the phrase with disgust “he/she thinks she’s white” whenever a black people spoke a certain way, asserted their intelligence or authority or whatever.

shame on you op for starting this thread when you knew what sort of response it would get. With “friends” like you your poor mate doesn’t need enemies.

Wow, so many replies. Have been taking some time to digest them.

When I reflect on the situation, it is definitely a boundary issue and partly my own fault for being slack with boundaries previously (always going out when it suits him, responding to messages even when really busy etc otherwise I’ll get the passive aggressive behaviour)

I’m currently doing a dissertation which is due 3rd week in August, I’ve not really seen a lot of friends lately because of this. I’ve text several people and said sorry I’m a bit busy at the moment with childcare and dissertation but this was met by him with “when can we meet up to go shopping” followed by a message saying “assuming you actually want to see me”

All of this has awakened something in me, I’d never have described myself as GC but I feel like I sort of drank the kool-aid and am emerging from the fog now.

Where has OP said that she doesn't accept her friend and his chosen identity? Why does she have to jump to her friend's angry demands and do something that she feels very uncomfortable about and doesn't want to do?

Just like I have friends who are enormous football fans - one of them even has an email address that is (very similar to) goonerstillidie @ email.com - but none of them expect me to go to matches with them or rave about how great they are, analysing every single game, as they know that, although we have lots of common interests, I categorically do not share this enthusiasm with them.

Even the request is coming from a very sexist and stereotypical assumption that excitedly shopping for clothes is intrinsic to being a woman. Yes, plenty of women do love clothes-shopping (as do some men); but women have so very many different interests that extend far more than simply what pretty clothes they wear. Some women even gladly live in jeans and t-shirts and can't think of anything more boring than traipsing around lots of shops all day trying on all the latest fashions!

However, I'm still not entirely convinced there's not a biological reason in some cases which is why I was challenging some of the responses dismissing it as a sexual fetish/mental illness.

That's a fair point. The interesting fact is though that there was some research being done on this but was vociferously shut down by the ‘trans community’.

They don’t want there to be a medical basis and therefore diagnostics as they know that a huge proportion of the men who identify as women ARE just performing their sexual fetish and any medical diagnosis would find them not to be ‘trans’, just autogynephiles.

200% prioritize your dissertation. Many people will try to distract you, but don’t cave in. They don’t understand how every minute counts for success.

Tell friend - on X date, when my dissertation Is submitted. Lets get drinks at Y (your fav place). Celebrate you!!

Have just read your latest post OP and it does look like an aggressive pushing of boundaries. I would ignore the ‘if you want to see me’ comment and keep saying you are too busy.

The OP literally said that they feel as if they are "participating in some weird fantasy" and that they dont believe "anyone can change sex" - that's not supportive of their friends choices, in any shape or form
The friendship is over.

‘Assuming you actually want to see me’. Answer, ‘actually, on reflection, no. Your confrontational attitude is not what I want in a friendship. Goodbye.’

and also alienate OP from the friendship group if she doesn't accede to his requirements...

Tbf the suffragettes did worse. Tried to blow up churches and theatres full of innocent men, women, and children. Also blinded/maimed innocent postal workers with their letter bombs. However, feminists worldwide praise them as heroines in spite of them attempting to recreate scenes like the Manchester Arena bombing.

TRAs can be loathsome but feminism has been a much more violent ideology to date.

All this pretending to be a woman is really about men trying to dominate women by stealth, and a particularly shiite form of stealth at that🙄

Agree with another pp in that this is more of a boundaries issue than to do with friend being trans

Not everyone has to do them though; the point was that she didn't, and she managed just fine.

Yes, the sad fact is that between the twitter wars there may be harmless people with a genuine condition facing extreme prejudice despite having done nothing to deserve it.

assuming you actually want to see me is so 'poor little me'. It's very unedifying and, I think, very male (I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that men compare to women, generally speaking, are weaker in character).

I bet most of your friends are completely fine about you prioritising dissertation. What does this friend think makes him different?

there was some research being done on this
Could you give us a link? I'd be quite interested in that. And interesting that it's been shut down.

@Crackdown96 I dont think it's impossible that something biological makes being trans more likely. Most human behaviours are a mixture of nature and nurture. I am sceptical that anyone has a trans identity wired in from birth, because as gender norms change over place and time, it seems impossible that an attachment to a particular set of them is innate.
I also think even if gender dysphoria was 100% innate, it would still be wrong to deal with that by making us all pretend TW were women and bullying any dissenters from that.

Yes- this is not a trans issue, it’s a bullying issue. If I sent apologies saying I was busy for a few weeks, and then got that response, I’d be pretty tetchy back- “as I said, my dissertation is due on [date], after which I might be a bit freer (but will still have childcare to deal with as it’s the holidays). I’ll come out of the bunker when I have the headspace, until then assume I’m not seeing you or anyone else for shopping trips. If you want to go sooner you’ll have to go on your own or with someone else.”

Any further pouting would get the brush off- “this dissertation is very important to me and I’m pretty hurt that you expect me to prioritise a shopping trip. When you can respect that I have important commitments going on in my life, get back to me.”

@Llamallamadingdong I'm sorry but you've let him get away with this for far too long, he gets sulky so you've agreed to all his plans in the past, now he expects you just to say yes to him. Set some boundaries, tell him your DC and education come first right now, if he can't accept that pull right back.

Which has exactly zero to do with LGB wanting nothing to do with the TQ+ lunacy.
Thank you for the history lesson, now perhaps we can return to the point that a woman has been put in an awkward position and made to feel uncomfortable due to the bullying behaviour of a male narcissist.

He just doesn’t sound like a very nice person or a good friend full stop.

A couple of years ago I probably would have gone shopping with him and helped but since emerging from the fog and becoming CG I just couldn’t do it now. If he was just wanting to go shopping to experiment with a more “feminine” look or makeup to wear as himself then fine (if I had the time obvs), but to help him “transition” - just no.
I fundamentally disagree that clothes and makeup make a woman.

You have tried to be nice and he’s responded in a PA way, I would say clearly it’s not something you have time for right now and that anyway you don’t think you’re the best person for the task.
You might lose his friendship but it doesn’t sound like a big loss tbh.

@MarieAndTwinette I think you’ve gone off on a tangent there with race issues. I would bet my house that the vast majority of GC posters on MN are not racist (and not homophobic either).

No one is arguing that trans people are not equal to everyone else. We are saying that transwomen are not actually women- which is true, they are men (otherwise what does the ‘trans’ bit mean?)

Trans people deserve equal rights and opportunities- the same as everyone else does. Luckily we live in a country that gives trans people those rights. They have exactly the same rights as everyone else. They do not have the right to get shitty and manipulative with friends who don’t share their beliefs.

What if you had a friend who kept nagging you to go to a meeting at the church of Scientology with them, and then getting shirty when you refused? Are you going to go along just to appease them? I doubt it.

The trans person has the right to wear whatever they like and to believe that they have become a woman. Their friend has the right to maintain their belief (knowledge) that their friend is a man.

I keep sort of kicking it down the road and saying maybe sometime when I’m less busy (have a lot going on at the moment) but he gets quite angry with me for this. I either get texts guilting me or making passive aggressive comments.

And there it is. Too many men see women as appliances, things to service them. This man sees you as female performance bot - and you're malfunctioning.

And the he gets quite angry with me bit is key.

Have a read of the Rules of Misogyny - 'Women saying no to men is a hate crime' especially 👇

https://forwomen.scot/05/02/2025/rules-of-misogyny/

All people have rights based on who they are, which includes sex, age etc. No one has the right to impose their thoughts on others.
It isn't kind to lie to people either on serious issues that could impact their health.
I couldn't help an anorexic meal plan for a low calorie diet and I couldn't help someone strengthen their incorrect belief that they are not the sex they are.