Struggling with trans friend

[Llamallamadingdong]

I have a friend (male) who has decided that they are actually female.

They’ve felt this way for many years now and confided in me and have not told anyone else. Recently had their first gender clinic appointment and have been told that the clinic will not help until they have at least tried to present as female (so far they have messed about with some clothes and makeup alone at home but never gone out in public)

Anyway they recently approached me and asked if I would help pick an outfit, do makeup and help with hair and then go out with them trying to present as female.

The problem is I just can’t do it. Fundamentally I don’t truly believe that we can change sex and I feel like I’m supporting a weird fantasy. Not sure what I want from this thread, I seem to be the only GC person in my friendship group and I feel like I’m a horrible person for potentially denying someone something they really want.

Recently had their first gender clinic appointment and have been told that the clinic will not help until they have at least tried to present as female

And there's the problem. The 'gender' clinics should not be operating like that. They should be offering neutral mental health services to help people explore these feelings. Like Dr Az Hakeem did.

Telling people to perform 'womanhood' in public is closing off all other paths and setting people down a single path. We should not be doing that. Its potentially really cruel.

Absolutely. The person you are responding to have the sort of closed mind that leads to division in society.

We need more curiosity about other people's views. I really do think curiosity is the characteristic that makes people genuinely tolerant and leads to more coming together in society and less division.

That’s horrible OP. Suggest they go with someone else!

I’m gender critical too. I have no problem with trans people going about their everyday life but if they are genuine they wouldn’t need to suck anyone else into their delusion. If they are so confident of who they are as a person then my validation should mean nothing to them.

Your guy friend hasn’t met even the basics for medication. He isn’t even practicing cosplaying yet - and it sounds like he wants you to be involved in his kink.

My concern is that this is part of his drama. When you reject him he’s going to retaliate against you. So tell him “of course!” and then just don’t make yourself available. You have a migraine or depression or something that stops you from physically or emotionally assisting him in his kink quest.

If you’re honest he is going to distance your entire friendship group from you.

It’s not your job to entertain this man‘s delusions. It’s not your job to be his emotional support. But what you must know is that this is the very start of his drama. He’s going to require a lot of time, energy (both physical and emotional) and you don’t have the bandwidth to be that person. My suggestion is this friendship has run its course.

He’s probably going to get your friendship group to turn against you - so be prepared for that.

There is nothing wrong with dropping the rope when a friendship has run its course and being honest could leave you excluded from your group. So I caution you to deal with this drama very carefully.

I'd tell him to ask again after he's had his cock chopped off.

Wow. That's not okay. What if that was a female friend wanting you to accompany them to church? A mosque? Vegan protest? A steakhouse?

I would expect any friend of mine to be fine with you declining some (or all!) . No friend should get angry, guilt you or make passive agressive comments.

This person doesn't sound like somebody who is likely to accept you have different opinions / views and seems to expect total acceptance.

I think it's time to phase this friendship out imo. And whilst I am usually a proponent of frank and open discourse I definitely would not explain different views, opinions etc in this case. You're just giving the information needed to attack you.

"I told you that I don't have time. You're being rude!" Nothing more needs to be said imo.

I am a gender-critical female.

I do not think that for ALL trans people they are indulging a kink. However, I do feel that for some men, that they are. Sadly, particularly a certain age (from my experience) i.e. older men.

I was friends with a transwoman for about 15 years. They sometimes dressed in normal - neutral - non proactive clothing such as blouses, trousers etc. in fact, they were well dressed and very conservative, natural, little make up if any. For that person, I can hand on my heart say, it wasn’t a kink or fetish. I actually enjoyed shopping with them, it was very much like being with another female friend - a little bit different - but I still enjoyed it.

I wanted to share this for balance on this thread.

It sounds like your friend is early in their “journey” and needs more time to “explore” their feelings. They don’t sound ready to transition at all. I say this kindly, and I would compare it with someone who was unsure of their sexuality too.

You are absolutely not obliged to go along with it if you do not feel comfortable, and you shouldn’t be pressured, coerced or guilt tripped either. They are projecting their own stuff onto you there. I would distance if uncomfortable.

supposed to say non-provocative*

This is the litmus test.

Ultimately, the argument here is that you ARE treating the friend 'as a woman' and they would therefore be 'living as a woman' if you said "sorry, I'm not into that and I'm not really comfortable in doing 'girly' shopping trips".

Would I feel ok going shopping with a woman who had low self asteem issues and wanted support? Not particularly, because I thoroughly believe that the problem isn't really the packaging. You might get an initial high from retail therapy, but actually its not addressing the underlying issues. And its actually unhealthy to be encouraging the high off shopping (can be addictive in its own right) and it involves external validation.

An individuals internal issues with identity and self can only be dealt with by them. If they need support it should be professional or from peers going through the same thing. Otherwise it can quickly become needy and toxic even with the best will in the world.

There is nothing kind in setting someone up for a escalution spiral of ever increasing need for validation and support against reality.

It is a lie to say you can change sex and 'live as a woman'. If a male wants to wear dresses and skirts, thats fine by me as long as its not accompanied by the on going demand for others to say 'ooo you look great'. Its attention seeking and I wouldn't put up with it from a woman.

Its cruel to suggest that women have this social behaviour of going "ooo you look great" to each other all the time. They don't. So why do we force this idea and guilt women into it when it comes to males who are transitioning???!

Its dishonest and its not treating males as if they are women. Its not the lived experience of women, so how can it be 'living as a woman"?

And men don’t know what it is to be a woman so….

I am not prepared to be used by a man as a passport to women’s spaces, which is the inevitable outcome in this scenario.

This whole scenario described by OP is an exercise in transgression of her boundaries. She has been targeted as the only non ‘affirming’ member of her friendship group, he is getting angry with her reluctance to go on this trip and he is 100% guaranteed to bounce into the ladies alongside her because he’s ’just like her’ now. She won’t get a say.

What’s wrong with supporting a friend’s self esteem?

Nothing.

BUT

You have the right to say No, this is too much and is an emotional dump too.

Boundaries.

If you feel like supporting is not in your own best interests, then you should always be able to say that and create distance. Some people dump on friends because they can and they see the other party as an doormat.

And yes, there are times where 'supporting' isn't doing what the other party demands - because as a friend you recognise that its not actually going to help their self esteem. Supporting can be saying 'no, you should do x or y instead' and offering an alternative.

There's a problem with lets go and spend a fortune on clothes, get a high off that and then get home and feel like shit because you realise that you had a lack of self control over buying more than you can afford and it doesn't really make you feel better once the tags are off because you still feel like your body/face is ugly or whatever.

Buying shit is buying shit. Its not addressing the WHYs about how you feel bad about yourself. Its a short term dopamine hit, not supporting the overall wellbeing of an individual.

Pretending a man can become a woman is ultimately cruel in the long run.

Mainly because, even the staunchest allies, still see the sex difference - and treat males who identify as women differently to all their female friends....

How far have you had to go to pretend you think they are the opposite sex?

I am with you on the LGB , that is about who you want to love and about understanding what sharing love with another human is.

But I am afraid the T and Q are not about love is love, they are, by and large , about me is me and sod the rest of you, do what I want or I will come for you armed with threats and violence. They are like unreasonable two year olds, but bigger and stronger and nastier.

My autistic daughter became friendly with another girl. I got to know her mum who was very keen for us to be friends too. I was happy to do this until both her children decided to change gender with her full blessing. She has tried to initiate meet ups since but I have had to gradually back out of this friendship. She is unquestioning in her support of her trans son and trans daughter, which is fine, but I cannot go along with it and do not want my daughter to have to go along with it too.

Tbf though most men have 10-14x the levels of testosterone so a woman with 'high' testosterone isn't even in the ballpark. Science has pretty much demonstrated by now that testosterone has profound effects on behaviour.

Both CEOs and violent criminals tend to have higher levels. Increasing testosterone even within the natural range impacts the brains fight or flight response. And both sexes demonstrate increased propensity for violence as testosterone levels rise. It's been discussed to death on here before.

Grey rock, OP. You say you're the only GC friend in the group? He can probably sense that and has zeroed in on you for this reason. A big part of performing trans is getting to experience "persecution" by "transphobes" and then running online to be comforted by the trans community. It's a rite of passage for these people and gets them brownie points among their own.

The "makeover" is a similar trans rite of passage. He obviously hasn't got a clue how to dress without looking like a clown himself, and wants you to do all the labour of making him over, so he can upload the pictures and be fawned over by silly women telling him how well he "passes". Pure narcissism.

This early in his transition, online affirmation probably is his main goal - but as others have said, he'll be using you as a passport into women's spaces, and that will only escalate as he becomes more confident in the fetish. Once he has performed womanface in public and seen for himself the way women swallow their own discomfort to accommodate him, he will start to enjoy the power that gives him, and want to keep pushing in. I wouldn't enable it, personally.

While I would love to just be honest with this man, your safest option is to grey rock and fade out the friendship instead. He wants to be a victim, and that means someone else has to be cast in the role of villain. If he decides you're the "evil transphobe" in his story, he will justify all sorts of horrible behaviour towards you. Women become less than human and worse than Hitler, in the eyes of the TQ+ squad, the minute we decide to assert a boundary. Don't give him the satisfaction. Just fade out.

Good luck.

"I really don't appreciate being spoken to like that."

This. This is setting boundaries against someone who doesn't accept them. You don't need to find arguments why you don't want. He has spoken to you in a way you don't appreciate, and tries to coerce you. Put up the stop sign, and leave him to do his own stuff. No need to find arguments pro or contra the trans issue because this is not about the trans issue.

you never went shopping with your girlfriends? You never asked for their opinion on outfits as you tried them on?

Why does it matter if she did or didn't? Her point is there are other ways to find out about clothes and make up.

She mentions this as a way of criticising the friends’ request. I am pointing out that it is a very natural thing to do with/for a friend.

These two are not friends anymore. There are many reasons why friendships end. They both need to acknowledge this and move on.

Yes, we live in the world of TikTok, instagram, YouTube, Pinterest now. There is a wealth of resources out there!

Yes in my youth, and I didn't like it. I found that I made bum decisions and bought things I didn't really want when I wasn't just listening to my own instincts. And I felt awkward giving honest advice to some more sensitive friends, but also felt awkward saying I liked something if I didn't - it's not something I find easy to balance.

Now I always, always shop alone. I will go with someone if they just want company and I'm not buying stuff, but I definitely would not be up for a "girly shopping trip" and especially not to "help" a male impersonate a woman by following some stereotypes that I myself as a woman don't buy into.