Struggling with trans friend

[Llamallamadingdong]

I have a friend (male) who has decided that they are actually female.

They’ve felt this way for many years now and confided in me and have not told anyone else. Recently had their first gender clinic appointment and have been told that the clinic will not help until they have at least tried to present as female (so far they have messed about with some clothes and makeup alone at home but never gone out in public)

Anyway they recently approached me and asked if I would help pick an outfit, do makeup and help with hair and then go out with them trying to present as female.

The problem is I just can’t do it. Fundamentally I don’t truly believe that we can change sex and I feel like I’m supporting a weird fantasy. Not sure what I want from this thread, I seem to be the only GC person in my friendship group and I feel like I’m a horrible person for potentially denying someone something they really want.

Brilliant!

Recently had their first gender clinic appointment and have been told that the clinic will not help until they have at least tried to present as female (so far they have messed about with some clothes and makeup alone at home but never gone out in public)

I know very little about the transition process – has the clinic specified themselves what 'trying to present as female' means, in cold hard terms?

Would it only mean wearing clothes from the 'womens' section of a shop outside of the house? For how long – 5 minutes? A day? A month? And where would someone have to go outside of their house? To the cinema? To work? A friend's house?

Or would giggling in a high-pitched tone be acceptable? What about asking their employer to pay them less?

I'd be fascinated to see the actual guidance on this, if anyone has experience or knowledge of what clinics need to see in order to be willing to engage...

Are there any support groups in your area? Perhaps you can direct them to the group. Say something like you don't have any knowledge in that area. Could you still meet this friend for coffee or a chat? Perhaps you could hear their story without having to fully support them.

Give over. Just go on Reddit and search “euphoria boner”, that’ll tell you exactly why it’s a fetish.
How many heterosexual middle aged women do you get “transitioning”? Very very few. Female reasons for wanting to transition are totally different and they’re nearly all very young women. Do some research.

Then this is where you tell him the truth about how you feel, and the friendship either carries on or it doesn’t. It’s one thing for him to confide in you but it’s quite another to try to bully you into something you’re clearly uncomfortable with. You’ve articulated your feelings pretty well here OP, you need to do the same face to face with him so there’s no misunderstanding.

Oh interesting, I assumed he didn't know OP was GC. Does he know OP? If so it's a complete power play, he's trying to force you into it. That gives me the creeps.

Well, you're not really a friend then, are you? Maybe better all round if you just cut the connection. You don't need the stress, and she needs more support and compassion.

The equivalent of 'God didn't make Adam and Steve, he made Adam and Eve.'

It's boringly predictable, isn't it?

How does having boundaries and saying no in a friendship mean not being a friend? Surely most adult friendships are robust enough to cope with a "no that won't work for me" at times? I don't see any evidence that OP is lacking compassion. She is simply not setting herself alight to keep someone else warm. It's not as though the friend can't just ask someone else?

sorry but you cannot remain friends with this person and hold the views that you do. It isn’t fair. You will probably become increasingly critical of this person and the situation will eventually become untenable. You will have to let the friendship go.

OP is allowed her views. She’s allowed to say she’s uncomfortable and why, nd as a friend he needs to accept that. l doubt very much that he’s unaware of the stress he’s causing. So l would say it’s not OP who isn’t being a friend here.

They can’t continue as friends.

I hope you're not serious ! So if someone was uncomfortable with supporting LGBT because they're Muslim or Christian or something like that, they are expected just to put aside deep religious convictions engrained into them just so a trans friend has a companion in a shopping trip? That seems harsh, if I may say so. Where's the compassion for them?

How do you know they look like a guy? They may look like a woman.

That's exactly where grooming starts. With something that seems so trivial... but it's insisting on something that another person doesn't want to do, making light of it, after all it's only a shopping trip. But once you've crossed one little boundary it becomes easier to get them to drop another. And another. It may not be grooming but that's how grooming works.

The OP is already uncomfortable and doesn't want to do it yet she feels unable to say a straight "no". Her friend isn't asking other people, he'd rather guilt-trip her.

I do like the idea of taking him to Mountain Warehouse. That’s a great shop with lots of ideas. Also a good line in accessories.

I must say though the person who jumped out of the bushes at my friend and I, wasn’t wearing mountain warehouse. This person had on a long coat, high heels. A wig.

Then they opened their coat in front of us (I think it was our own private showing, lucky), they were wearing stockings, suspenders, little knickers and a bra. And a stonking hard on. And lipstick. So I Think it was a man.

Anyway we didn’t know what to do really, he was blocking our way, so we sort of laughed quite a lot, he then swept off wrapping himself up in his coat and hobbling away back into the bushes.

Perhaps he had a stash of beanies and fleeces in there.

I haven't read the thread, @Llamallamadingdong, but my instinct would be to do the same i.e. nothing.

The fact that keeps me very confused about all this business is that we (as a country) ever decided that a man should "live as a woman" before having "gender" surgery at all.

What is it to "live as a woman"?

Are women just a costume to put on and take off at will?
Are women just a hairstyle?
Are women a type of shoe?
Are women those who wear makeup?
Are women those who like shopping?

Does your male friend, @Llamallamadingdong , have to behave like the above examples in order to "live as a woman"? It is all a bit insane, isn't it?

Point out to your friend that in order to "live as a woman" he needs to be born female.
Ask him what he thinks a woman is? Is it a feeling, clothing, behaviour?

Suggest he has counselling to come to terms with his male sex.

The GRA and the GRC need repealing pronto. They should never have been enacted. It is mad to imagine that we ask a man to "live as a woman" when the only way to do that is to be born female. After all, women can live, dress and act however we damn well please.

Why can't they continue as friends ? I am someone who had to set a similar boundary with my trans friend and the friendship has survived and is doing well. Friendship is always a give and take.

send your friend my way id love to help them

Male pattern violence and entitlement when you (a woman) say no to him? What a surprise .

Did you read op’s update about him sending aggressive messages to her?

I did and I personally would not be continuing the friendship . I wasn't sure if that was what was being meant or was someone saying GC can't be friends with trans because they aren't supportive enough ? Just wanted to clarify that I understood.

The anger and passive aggressive comments are a big red flag. Friends don’t behave like that.

You do realise the whole ‘love is love’ mantra was co-opted by paedophiles don’t you? It’s something people say without thinking about the implications. ‘Everybody should be able to love whomever they want’ includes men who ‘love’ children.
catherinehume.wordpress.com/2021/04/09/the-danger-of-saying-love-is-love/

I have sympathy for the friend of course. But you can't be a friend of someone whose basic value system is totally different.

I couldn't be friends with a Reform voter, for example in the same way many couldn't be friends with a Jeremy Corbyn supporter.