Boys/men fixated on seeing girls with "no make-up" to check they're not being "cat-fished"

[CohensD]

Teen DD has told me this is "a thing" on social media. DD has some facial birthmarks which she has covered with make-up for years, and the trend is making her unusually anxious. She has a boyfriend (who otherwise seems very sweet), who has apparently recently asked for "reassurance" that she "doesn't wear much make-up".

Can someone articulate for me why I find this trend so misogynistic and disturbing? At a very general level, it feels like yet another way to police girls'/women's bodies. But I feel like I object to it in a more specific way, and can't articulate why....

I wouldn't think it was a good idea to date anyone that you weren't comfortable wearing no makeup around. But this is subtly different to that. The idea of being comfortable wearing no makeup around someone is because you are confident they are with you for you, so what you have or don't have on your face makes no difference. The idea of him controlling her make-up removal in order to make sure she looks acceptable without it is worrying, and has already achieved the opposite of her feeling comfortable about it. She should find a new relationship. He should be with someone he's happy with in the way they present themselves to him - if that means no makeup he should date girls who don't wear makeup and not require those who do to prove themselves to him.

How long have they been dating anyway and which end of the teen years? 13 year olds dating for a few weeks would have me even more concerned that this could escalate into “give me your sm passwords so I know you’re not talking to other boys” sort of control or even worse, him taking a photo of her bare face so he can use it to prove his “manliness” to other boys.

I can see why heavy make-up can be problematic on social media (or even real life, for some) There are profiles on Instagram for example where women who heavily alter and filter their appearance are debunked. It’s not just about make-up but they alter their bodies too with different filters and effects, so they have a slimmer waist, longer legs, bigger breasts, flatter stomach, plumper lips, flawless skin etc. Honestly, who are they trying to fool with all this? When it’s time to meet up, the men will see what they look like anyway. And often they look totally different. So men just want to avoid meeting with someone they started chatting to on social media who will turn out to be totally different to what they look like on their altered photos.
Nobody points a gun against women’s heads to do this. They are doing it willingly. They are lying, selling false images. Of course men don’t want that.
If men did the same tricks and lies, I would be pissed off too.I

'If men did the same tricks and lies, I would be pissed off too.' Well first off they do. I have seen women complain about men on dating sites who use old photos and/or lie about their age and height.

Second, that's irrelevant to the op. She is talking about her daughter seeing someone in real life who is now asking for 'reassurance' that she isn't wearing 'too much make up'. He now presumably wants her to take her make up off and present herself for inspection to see if she measures up.

I kind of agree with you when it comes to 'who are they trying to fool' - it's pretty obvious when someone has filtered themselves to fuck. So the idea that poor innocent men are being duped by wiley women with amazing make up skills is a bit daft really isn't it? For men and women, it makes sense not to get too invested in someone online, especially if it looks like they could be hiding something.

OP you’re right it’s extremely disturbing, controlling and a massive red flag for coercive control. Tell your DD to get rid of him!

Yes, men lie too. In terms of looks, wealth, personality and so on. And yes, you guessed it right, when they do it, women get pissed off! So, naturally, it goes the other way around too: men get pissed off when women look utterly different in real life to their photos! I think we agree on this.
As for OP’s daughter, what I made out of her post is that her daughter hasn’t met this young man yet and he would like to make sure that in real life she looks somewhat similar to her photos. But OP will correct me if I’m wrong about this. OP is talking about an online trend, so it’s about women presenting false images about themselves before they meet someone in the flesh. That was my perception.

Op has already posted that he is her boyfriend and she knows him in real life. She never once said anything about photos. That was an assumption you jumped to very quickly.

It isn't about women presenting false narratives about themselves either. It's about women wearing make up, something they have done for millennia and how apparently the act of wearing make up in and of itself is cat fishing.

Feels particularly unfair really as women have often been accused of 'not making an effort' if they DON'T wear make up.

Bit dramatic

No ones stopping him finding things attractive, or having preferences. He already finds her 'attractive' presumably as she's his gf (in quotation marks as these are children we are talking about)

He's asking she removes her make up to check she's not deceiving him, and to check she's up to the mark naturally. Someone He already presumably cares about

I agree it probably comes from the manosphere and influences like Tate, etc.
On the other hand I know women my age (50) who proudly boast that their husbands have never seen them without makeup and never will, which also seems off to me.

The manosphere is definitely ramping up attacks against women via the Internet.

For example I saw some of the comments about Jennifer Love-Hewitt at a film premiere. Men are criticising a woman in her 40s for not looking like a teenager any more. When you look at the profile pics of these men you can’t help but think wtaf.

So if they are already a real-life couple and regularly see each other, where is the problem? Has she NEVER been make-up free around him before? Then what does the story to do with an online trend? There comes a point in everybody’s life when they have to be absolutely bare natural in front of their partner. Waking up in the morning for instance. Or does OP’s daughter sleep in her make-up? Then she has a problem but don’t blame her boyfriend for it.

Ops talking about her daughter who has clearly already met her bf. You assumed it was an online photo as obviously its quite bizarre he can't work out what she looks like if he's seen her in the flesh

Its an online trend of men implying women who are wearing make up are lying or deceiving them, e.g. the trend of saying take her swimming. There's a lot of discourse online about men being worried their partners are catfishing them because they wear make up, women they already know.

It's no more catfishing to wear make up than it is to have a beard or to have your hair a certain style or wear long sleeves because you have scars. If a woman demanded her boyfriend (please note the term boyfriend I.e. Someone you are already attracted to) remove his beard or shave all his hair off in case he was actually ugly underneath, that would obviously be wrong.

Well exactly, where is the problem? He knows what she looks like as he's met her ffs. The problem is that he's implying she's secretly ugly and therefore he won't like her anymore. And agin most men will have seen their partners without make up, so why the implication they are being deceived?

OP doesn't say how old her daughter is but as they are teenagers they probably haven't woken up next to each other, he may not have seen her bare face but he knows what her face looks like. OP States her daughter has a birth mark shes insecure about. If it was a birthmark on her leg no one would imply she had a problem by wearing trousers

@CohensD why would your daughter's boyfriend ask her for reassurance about how much make up she wears when he knows her in real life? Surely he knows that she covers her birthmarks with make-up? It doesn't make sense that he would need 'reassurance'.

As for the bigger picture, I know loads of people who have been on dates with people they have met initially online who turned out to look nothing like their profile photo IRL. Lots of people use make up and filters in the online photos. So, often you can't really know until you meet them IRL. I doubt that all or even most boys and men are 'fixated' on this however IF I was single and a guy asked me to send him a photo of myself with no make up on and I didn't want to do this, then I wouldn't do it and I would block him for being shallow and not someone I want to get to know.

Look, he would like to see her without make-up. So what? I think it’s a reasonable request with a couple. If a stranger is asking it, it is a step too far.
As I said, there comes a point in every couple’s life when they have to be natural in front of each other. He will probably still like her without make-up. If not, time to find a boyfriend who will. Problem solved. What else can she do about it? If they sleep with each other in the future, she presumably will do it make-up free. If they go on holiday to the seaside, she will probably bathe in the sea without make-up. Sauna? Same story there.
We are going around in circles here.

It's a bit "Get thee to a nunnery". Ugh.

Thank you all - very helpful to see the different perspectives on this.

I still find it creepy. No issue with people having preferences, but if you can't TELL whether someone's wearing make-up or not without asking, I'm really not sure this is simple preference.

For those who've asked, DD is 16 and he's 17. They've known each other for a year, and have been dating for a few weeks.

Oh, and he and 4 mates have just suggested they all take their girlfriends swimming together! I hadn't even made this link till someone mentioned it on the thread....

They shouldn't "win" regarding our make-up.

"Oh, and he and 4 mates have just suggested they all take their girlfriends swimming together! "
So they can get the makeup washed off and have a look at them in swimsuits and rate each other's GFs faces and bodies out of ten? Ugh .

Suggest the girls all get together and agree to go, but come out of the change rooms wearing these:

https://finisterre.com/products/into-the-sea-seasuit-recycled-navy?variant=39665276878925&currency=GBP&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=20737297167&utm_term=&utm_content=__m__39665276878925&st_source=google&st_medium=paid&st_campaign={20737297167}&st_content={}&st_term={}&st_adid={}&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20743636496&gclid=CjwKCAjwvuLDBhAOEiwAPtF0VvxGs6sFSJNGCNvdCThVztgYa9Zh7uAUW9Qa-lOXnKXHoFQ1FQXTVxoCbakQAvD_BwE

and that stormproof everythingproof makeup that synchronised swimmers, in the most out-there colours and designs they can manage.

I don't think they get to take the term cat-fishing for this - it trivialises the very serious kind of fraud (mainly men) perpetuate. Women aren't using this kind of hyperbole for me claiming to be richer/taller, which is an actual lie. Make up isn't a lie either, it's more a fashion choice.

The swimming thing is even more grim, to make their girlfriends prove a point in some sort of one upmanship between friends. They are all lucky to have girlfriends at all and swimming is meant to be fun.

https://images.app.goo.gl/PZDdLPeUF3zvZZYD7

Like this.

Why does swimming have to be a coded message for something sinister? Why do you assume this is the way boys want to see girls without make-up? Swimming and frolicking in the water is a perfectly reasonable pastime for youngsters, especially in the summer heat. Maybe they just really like to swim, surprise!
What else do you find sinister? Going out for a meal? It is a method by which men secretly gauge how much girls eat and how likely it is that they will gain weight in the future?
Going to the movies? Let me guess. Boys want to see how girls react emotionally to certain scenes. 🙄
Please feel free to continue..

You seem so angry about people challenging what they view as sexism / misogyny @yallahbye

The ‘take a girl on a swim date to check what she looks like without make up’ concept was a tiktok trend that went viral in the last year or two at various points. It was spoken about widely online so people have been referencing it when OP said her DD’s boyfriend suggested a swim date. It’s not a big man hating conspiracy for people to have mentioned it, it makes perfect sense in context.

Now you know about the trend hopefully you can see that.

It doesn’t mean that EVERYBODY suggests swimming because they want to see girls without make up on. Don’t tar everybody with the same brush.
Swimming on the very first date stinks of suspicion as hell, but later on is totally normal. Like going to the gym together.
Do you like it when men say that all women are gold-diggers or cheats? I thought not. You don’t like to be tarred by the same brush either.
We are venturing into a territory when men can’t say, do or suggest anything without seen as suspicious and weird.