Lilly Allen & Miquita on abortions

[Cloud987]

Sorry for the DM link - I know it's a rag.

I'm just completely disturbed having read this article and listened to their podcast episode of them talking about having 5 abortions each. This surely is not what the 1967 abortion act was designed for. It's not some preppy girl-power feminist statement to have so many abortions you can't even remember them. And to laugh and sing about it rather than take a somber view or think about how you would make better choices or advise women and girls listening to make other choices for themselves. Or to demand that contraceptive services post-abortion are better to prevent girls from having another one. Am I wrong for thinking this is messed up and completely tasteless? And antithetical to the well-being of women and girls? Am I being excessively prude and judgemental?

Sorry didn't know where else to put this & haven't made a thread before so if I have broken rules or if this just is inappropriate let me know. This has just really got under my skin.

Article link here

Their podcast is called "Miss Me" and is available on BBC sounds - it's on their episode from this week called "Listen Bitch" at the very start. I am not a regular listener to it.

Edit: sorry I meant to post this on feminism chat not S&G discussions

Women can have as many as they want or need so you have to respect these women, or else you don't support your first sentence

I think that is absolutely foul and vile, and I don't care if anyone thinks I am judgy. Inexplicably, despite having around 10 sexual partners before I met my now DH in my mid 20s (including three 4-5 month relationships,) I managed to never get fucking pregnant. Also managed to never get pregnant in the 30-ish years I have been with DH - except the 2 times I wanted to. (We have 2 children.)

No, I'm not super clever, or super smart, or super smug. Just careful. It's not that hard to NOT get pregnant FGS.

There really needs to be some law against someone having that many abortions!

Then again, Lily is very likely making this up for attention. She is a nepo baby with fuck-all talent, and hasn't been relevant for a decade and a half. Gotta get herself into the limelight somehow. 🙄

No idea who Miquita is. And I don't care.

How many instances were there of men pressurising Lily Allen (or indeed other women) to have sex without condoms? Inspired by the example of porn in particular?

Weird she would be so flippantl about abortions when she's lost two children and one at nearly full term. Weird

The same women who can say no before a committed relationship

These women are not exactly representative of the entire female population though. Many women who have abortions are married women who have surprise later in life pregnancies when they thought they were no longer fertile.

I just had a quick google. UK Abortions have actually been declining in the long term over a decade but then spiked in the time after Covid lockdown, obviously due to lack of access perhaps also to birth control as well. Improved birth control and abortion access is generally associated with falls in abortion rates.

In the US, abortions has actually increased in recent years, even despite many states outlawing it. Women are getting around the measures put in place. I imagine if you had a surprise pregnancy in the US and weren’t too sure about keeping it, you’d race to end it very quickly before the choice was taken from you or the pregnancy was noticeable.

www.guttmacher.org/2024/03/despite-bans-number-abortions-united-states-increased-2023

I agree.

For many, an abortion is a simple, straightforward procedure, but it's certainly not always the case. It doesn't always work as it should and the result can mean further interventions which aren't always pleasant. I absolutely believe that abortions should be freely available, but the flippant way this was being talked about didn't sit right with me. Fortunately, the NHS health and sexual health services do give really good support and information that set out what's involved during and after the procedure so any woman or girl who does have an abortion is supported and understands what will happen to her body. I just wish L & M had been a bit more responsible in their podcast, but having listened to the pair of them wittering on during a previous podcast I know that's not their thing.

Oh ffs the shaming is off the charts. If you have conservative values just own it but I don’t think they’re compatible with feminism. Sure, sounds like they weren’t being sensible about sexual health and contraception. But that’s bodily autonomy for you. You can’t say you believe women should have it but then start adding caveats. Abortion isn’t a big deal for everyone. It wasn’t for me. It’s healthcare. Obviously preventing pregnancy is preferable but accidents happen and yes, people can be reckless. Have as many abortions as you want or need as far as I’m concerned. They are morally neutral.

In his day and age any woman with Lily and Miquita's privilege getting pregnant when they don't want to five times cannot be excused by saying 'accidents happen'. The vast majority of us manage to not get accidentally pregnant even once. I don't think the abortion is even the major issue here. It's the ridiculous attitude to safe sex and contraception that is most horrifying. And the fact that they're not able to reflect on that in a mature way says it all. Abortion is obviously not morally neutral and I would expect it to be discussed in a more nuanced way by two grown women - unless of course they're just looking for headlines like this one.

It’s an interesting one isn’t it because I do strongly believe in her right to have the abortions, and as many as she wants, but I still feel uncomfortable about her laughing about it. One for me to ponder on!

I really don’t know what to think of this.

I am 100% pro choice and have myself had 3 abortions. I feel shame about that, and have had to have counselling to try and make me understand that it wasn’t my fault.

But then… I dunno, having so many, not remembering, being so blasé about it… it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

My 3 abortions were all very very different circumstances, some more preventable than others (from my side. Not any of the men) and what I can 100% say is that I made changes after each of them to try and prevent it happening again.

After the first I went on the pill for the first time (I was young), after the second, I realised that doing natural cycles and pulling out did not work, so went on to condoms, and after the third I learnt to never trust a man again when they say they have put a condom on 🙃

Unfortunately the onus is put on women to prevent pregnancy and I absolutely despise that it is, but I also think we should not be so ‘feminist’ that we use abortions as a show of our rights to not have to use contraception or like it’s as natural as taking the morning after pill.

I dunno… I just think it’s in bad taste and sending out the wrong message. We are extremely lucky to have access to abortions when needed but I also still think the alternative of not getting pregnant in the first place should be glorified and abortion seen as a last option, not just a back up plan.

These women are clearly mentally disordered, beyond repair. But I'm sure they reap what they sow. No need to listen to/about them.

ETA: this has nothing to do with "reproductive rights".

Im not sure abortion is a great method of contraception but who am I to say what’s right. I liked what Lily said about just not wanting to be pregnant is enough reason to have an abortion.
personally I found having an abortion even for a baby that I definitely did not want extremely distressing and now sure I could laugh it off they way they did.

Terminated pregnancies as in ending them with abortions rather than preventing them. Preventing a pregnancy is what contraception does.

Abortion is obviously not morally neutral

To you.

I attribute no moral judgement to a woman going through with an abortion. I assume if she’s having one it’s because she either wants or needs one. If she’s having an abortion for neither of those reasons then I’ll save my moral judgement for whoever is pushing it on her. Assuming it’s her choice then whether it’s her first or her twenty first the act is no different.

We’re all different. A week after my abortion I went to a gig and the room was empty and I turned to my friend and said “Christ it’s deader than my aborted foetus in here”. So I can understand joking and being flippant about it because I did!

Presumably you knew your friend well enough to know she would find that comment amusing in some way. Would you have said that to a room full of people you didn't know? Or to your colleagues?

It’s very careless, that’s what I would say. Knowing that it’s not actually that easy to get pregnant, I’m not sure how you continually have unprotected sex to the point where you have been pregnant (more than) 5 times and you STILL don’t think, hmmm, maybe I should use some contraception here?

This 👌🏻

Agree 💯

Isn't it just?

Probably yes because that’s just what my humour is like.

This 10000%. I’ve also had two abortions, you take a pill, it’s routine healthcare, and if you know you can’t possibly continue the pregnancy then it’s no more “sombre” than the morning after pill.

And to say it loud for the people at the back, zygotes are not babies.

Being flippant about is misleading. It caused me a great deal of distress, I could never joke about it. Making that decision has had a detrimental effect on my life. I don't judge others for doing it, just don't think it's right to be casual about it as others may think they will be fine doing it, when it's really not an easy decision.

While I completely defend the right of all women to end a pregnancy, it’s just not something to be flippant about. Really bad taste.

I’ve been listening to their pod and wanting to like it but more often than not I come away feeling irritated & completely cringed out.

They are so unbelievably spoiled, childish and out of touch with reality.