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Feminism: chat

Transwoman on women's ward

680 replies

Sallycinnamum · 17/06/2025 18:34

Had a minor gynae procedure today but nevertheless was very anxious leading up to it.

Was wheeled back to the day ward to be greeted quite literally (started waving at me) by a transwoman in the bed opposite me.

There was no doubt he was a man and being completely immobile due to a spinal anaesthetic with no underwear on I asked the nurse to completely close the curtains so he couldn't look directly at me.

Spoke to a nurse who confirmed it wasn't a mixed ward.

I am so upset. I felt so vulnerable especially as I couldn't walk so had to pee into a bedpan in clear earshot of him.

I've emailed PALS but I feel so bloody fed up of it all. Had a man next to me in the M&S lingerie changing rooms a few weeks ago and was made to feel like a total bigot when I complained to the staff.

OP posts:
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Arran2024 · 18/06/2025 18:11

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 17:38

I'm reporting this post too.

Presumably you'll be reporting all posts discussing statistics around male perpetrators too?

Here's some statistics. It's a well known fact that mothers are the main perpetrators of non-sexual child abuse. Trying to shut down discussion of this isn't helpful in getting them and their children the support they need.

Unfortunately, it's hard to find recent data on this topic as people like yourself try and shut it down, but from the numerous government studies we have the facts are pretty clear. In 5-6 consecutive years the studies showed 'mother only' to be primary perpetrator, and it was still the same in studies conducted in 2022.

Link for first graph: https://www.statista.com/statistics/254893/child-abuse-in-the-us-by-perpetrator-relationship/

Link for below excerpt and tables in second image: https://www.breakingthescience.org/SimplifiedDataFromDHHS.php

TV shows and movies likewise hardly ever tell stories of abusive mothers or mothers who kill their children, leaving the viewing public with the misimpression that fathers are a far greater danger to their children than mothers. TV shows and movies are also far more likely to portray girls as victims of maltreatment than boys.

However data from the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services (DHHS) tells a completely opposite story regarding who abuses children. The DHHS publishes an annual report called "Child Maltreatment", and each year's report contains a table detailing the parental status of the perpetrator(s).

Shown below is an analysis of data drawn from the "Child abuse and neglect" and the "Child fatality" tables from each of the DHHS' "Child Maltreatment" reports between 2001 and 2006.

The DHHS calculates the percentages of perpetrators in various categories such as Mother, Father, Foster Parent, Daycare Staff, Friend or Neighbor, etc. The percentages are often used to argue whether, on average, it is fathers or mothers that pose a greater risk of harm to their children. But when trying to determine which parent, on average poses the greater danger, categories like Foster Parent, Daycare Staff, Friend or Neighbor, etc. are entirely irrelevant. The calculations below factor out those categories to produce a more accurate picture. The resulting calculations show the percentage of child abuse and deaths caused by one parent acting either alone or in concert with someone other than the child's other parent.

The DHHS data shows that of children abused by one parent between 2001 and 2006, 70.6% were abused by their mothers, whereas only 29.4% were abused by their fathers.

And of children who died at the hands of one parent between 2001 and 2006, 70.8% were killed by their mothers, whereas only 29.2% were killed by their fathers.

Furthermore, contrary to media portrayals that leave the viewer with the impression that only girls are ever harmed, boys constituted fully 60% of child fatalities. (Table 4-3, p. 71, Child Maltreatment 2006).

Edited

That's quite a bit of whatabouttery but anyway, the biggest danger to children is not their parents, but unrelated men. As per usual, men.

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 18:14

OakleyAnnie · 18/06/2025 17:53

How is your post remotely relevant to a discussion about women’s safety and privacy from men?

If you read the thread you'd see it's a response to the oft quoted "how do we know which are the bad men?" argument.

We could equally say "how do we know which are the women safe to have around children?".

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 18:16

Arran2024 · 18/06/2025 18:11

That's quite a bit of whatabouttery but anyway, the biggest danger to children is not their parents, but unrelated men. As per usual, men.

Not sure how you reached that conclusion when the post you quoted states that 70% of both child abuse and murder is perpetrated by the mother only.

OakleyAnnie · 18/06/2025 18:18

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 18:14

If you read the thread you'd see it's a response to the oft quoted "how do we know which are the bad men?" argument.

We could equally say "how do we know which are the women safe to have around children?".

Oh, I see. So is your answer not to have any safeguarding for women from men because children are at danger from their mothers?

viques · 18/06/2025 18:32

holamuchgusto · 17/06/2025 22:46

I'd like to refer you to the point you made "living as a woman for 45 years". Therefore, she is a woman. You don't have to have surgery to be a trans woman. Therefore she is entirely entitled to be on that ward. No dispute. You are being very discriminatory.

So living AS a woman. Not BEING a woman.

Bit of a difference.

I could call my hamster a dog, feed him dog food, take him for walks in the park etc. But if I took him to the vet they would know in an instant he wasn’t a dog, and to be fair, they wouldn’t have had to go to vet school for seven years to know. And if my vet played along with my fantasy, or even agreed with me that yes, he was a dog, they probably wouldn’t be a very good vet, because day one of vet school I am sure they teach them that animals can’t change species, just like humans can’t change sex.

TheOtherRaven · 18/06/2025 18:57

I don't honestly care if the man in question is a saint who has a Vulcan mind meld and personal soul approval from Layla Moran, bless her batshit little heart. I don't care if he's the safest and sweetest man in the world.

I do not want him on a hospital ward with me, or anywhere else where I am undressed. I will not be being a prop in his inner life and self expression.

I have numerous men in my life that I'm very fond of and trust completely. I would not undress with any of them. And they would not wish to put any woman in that position and make her uncomfortable, or think it appropriate to use others in this rather abusive way, because they are decent people.

If you want to undress with men go and do it to your heart's content. Leave the non consenting ones alone, this bullying is creepy and bizarre.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/06/2025 18:59

viques · 18/06/2025 18:32

So living AS a woman. Not BEING a woman.

Bit of a difference.

I could call my hamster a dog, feed him dog food, take him for walks in the park etc. But if I took him to the vet they would know in an instant he wasn’t a dog, and to be fair, they wouldn’t have had to go to vet school for seven years to know. And if my vet played along with my fantasy, or even agreed with me that yes, he was a dog, they probably wouldn’t be a very good vet, because day one of vet school I am sure they teach them that animals can’t change species, just like humans can’t change sex.

He's not even living as a woman.

He's living as a man who wants people to pretend he is a woman.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/06/2025 19:02

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/06/2025 18:59

He's not even living as a woman.

He's living as a man who wants people to pretend he is a woman.

Has anyone actually managed to coherently articulate what living as a woman entails? I’ve yet to see or hear it. Especially on here.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/06/2025 19:03

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/06/2025 19:02

Has anyone actually managed to coherently articulate what living as a woman entails? I’ve yet to see or hear it. Especially on here.

Having a fucking hysteroscopy is living as a woman.

Sallycinnamum · 18/06/2025 19:13

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/06/2025 19:02

Has anyone actually managed to coherently articulate what living as a woman entails? I’ve yet to see or hear it. Especially on here.

Well done for actually making me laugh at this comment. Oh the irony!

OP posts:
Fimofriend · 18/06/2025 19:22

holamuchgusto · 17/06/2025 22:46

I'd like to refer you to the point you made "living as a woman for 45 years". Therefore, she is a woman. You don't have to have surgery to be a trans woman. Therefore she is entirely entitled to be on that ward. No dispute. You are being very discriminatory.

How do you "live as a woman"? Who are you to decide that it is ok for someone to break the law? Who are you to give consent on behalf of all women?

It is not discriminatory to demand that single sex spaces remain single sex spaces!!! How dare you?

potpourree · 18/06/2025 19:27

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/06/2025 19:02

Has anyone actually managed to coherently articulate what living as a woman entails? I’ve yet to see or hear it. Especially on here.

I thought we all agreed it was "posting on MN"? If not, why on Earth have I been doing it all this time?!

Fluffytoebeanz · 18/06/2025 19:28

I was thinking about this today. What is a female experience? It's not about how we dress or look or make up although there are those elements possibly. It's about being told you can't do stuff because you are a girl, to be told you can't have ADHD (insert other conditions) because you are a girl, to have pain dismissed, to be told you are a drama queen or too much, or too pushy, to deal with the embarrassment of a period leaking, to be patronised. To not get a job because you are not pushy enough. To be groped in the tube, to have NO ignored. To be told you are crazy when you question a man's behaviour. To be told to make sure you have your keys in your hand when you walk home at night, to have men call you a "fat c*nt" because you dare to call them out on their behaviour. Domestic, emotional and physical abuse. The list goes on and on.

I'm sorry but living as a woman by wearing dresses and make up for any amount of years is not living the female experience.

Fimofriend · 18/06/2025 19:29

holamuchgusto · 17/06/2025 23:42

This has got nothing to do with sexual fantasy, how utterly ridiculous.
She was informing the nurse of her background and choices. She has probably spent her entire life justifying.
Just because a trans person doesn't have surgery, doesn't make them any less trans. In fact you don't need surgery for a gender recognition certificate which allows you to live in the gender of your choice! She is female. Therefore, why should she be forced into a side room because someone else has taken a dislike? She has every right to be on that ward as someone who identified as trans female.
No patient should be left uncovered with curtains open so I'm not entirely sure what the issue is. The OP didn't have to flash herself!
It's absolutely disgusting reading the comments and how so many people are incredibly discriminatory towards trans gender individuals. This country is going backwards not forwards.

No, the law states that that MAN does not have the right to be in women's single sex spaces. You are being very discriminatory towards women.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/06/2025 19:29

Fluffytoebeanz · 18/06/2025 19:28

I was thinking about this today. What is a female experience? It's not about how we dress or look or make up although there are those elements possibly. It's about being told you can't do stuff because you are a girl, to be told you can't have ADHD (insert other conditions) because you are a girl, to have pain dismissed, to be told you are a drama queen or too much, or too pushy, to deal with the embarrassment of a period leaking, to be patronised. To not get a job because you are not pushy enough. To be groped in the tube, to have NO ignored. To be told you are crazy when you question a man's behaviour. To be told to make sure you have your keys in your hand when you walk home at night, to have men call you a "fat c*nt" because you dare to call them out on their behaviour. Domestic, emotional and physical abuse. The list goes on and on.

I'm sorry but living as a woman by wearing dresses and make up for any amount of years is not living the female experience.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5357452-living-as-a-woman?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Feel free to join my new thread.

Living as a woman | Mumsnet

This is a thread for people to give examples of experiences which constitute "living as a woman". I'll go first. Peeing on a pregnant test and waiti...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5357452-living-as-a-woman

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 19:32

OakleyAnnie · 18/06/2025 18:18

Oh, I see. So is your answer not to have any safeguarding for women from men because children are at danger from their mothers?

No, of course not. I'm just saying that it's an odd argument to say that we can't identify the bad men but not take the same view of the bad women.

Fluffytoebeanz · 18/06/2025 19:33

See you there

Fimofriend · 18/06/2025 19:38

Jewel52 · 18/06/2025 00:38

I see very few trans people yet on Mumsnet they’re seemingly lurking everywhere, having gone through all the trauma of becoming trans for the sole purpose of raping biological women.

And now seemingly they’re getting themselves ill to gain access to women on female wards.

What a hugh amount of effort they seem to put in when they could just rape women in the ways customarily employed by most men.

Stop with the strawman argument. It is about being able to feel safe when you are in a vulnerable state. Why should the trans-identified man's need for validation be more important than that?

lovelydayIhave · 18/06/2025 19:38

Justasmallgless · 17/06/2025 19:41

Also I assume that if you were having a gynae procedure, that this was specifically a gynae ward??

so what would a trans woman be doing in there as a patient unless he specifically requested it??

Yes this.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/06/2025 19:52

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 19:32

No, of course not. I'm just saying that it's an odd argument to say that we can't identify the bad men but not take the same view of the bad women.

Have we really had a ‘women do it too?’ Really? In fact has anyone said on this thread women can’t do bad things too? No, because that’s not what the thread’s about. Start your
own thread about when women go bad if you like (reminder - men commit 98% of the sexual and violent crimes that occur in the UK).

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/06/2025 19:54

Fimofriend · 18/06/2025 19:38

Stop with the strawman argument. It is about being able to feel safe when you are in a vulnerable state. Why should the trans-identified man's need for validation be more important than that?

Another question that’s never answered by the TWAW brigade. Why are the tiny minority of men who we can’t tell are trans anyway (but we are simultaneously scared of them)’s feelings more important? Why?

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 20:18

Fimofriend · 18/06/2025 19:38

Stop with the strawman argument. It is about being able to feel safe when you are in a vulnerable state. Why should the trans-identified man's need for validation be more important than that?

I don't think anybody is suggesting that trans people do it as a cover to rape women. It's the issue that with self ID they wouldn't need a cover. Any dodgy bloke could just follow the girls swimming team into the changing room.

Balloonhearts · 18/06/2025 20:20

Fimofriend · 18/06/2025 19:22

How do you "live as a woman"? Who are you to decide that it is ok for someone to break the law? Who are you to give consent on behalf of all women?

It is not discriminatory to demand that single sex spaces remain single sex spaces!!! How dare you?

Quite! Speak for yourself by all means but you cannot give consent on behalf of others and you certainly don't speak for me.

'She' may be a transwoman but unfortunately for 'her' transwomen are still male! Hospital wards are single sex, not gender, and gender, as we are frequently reminded, is completely separate from sex. 'She' could be living as fucking ET for all I care, it doesn't make her female.

DuesToTheDirt · 18/06/2025 20:24

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 19:32

No, of course not. I'm just saying that it's an odd argument to say that we can't identify the bad men but not take the same view of the bad women.

Your argument makes no sense. You are saying that children are potentially at risk from their mothers (we don't know which ones will turn out to be bad), and agreeing that women are potentially at risk from men (we don't know which ones will turn out to be bad).

So, as an adult woman, who should I be afraid of? Other women, who are not my mother, and in any case I am an adult not a child? Or men?

(As for the actual small children who really are at risk from their mothers, yes they exist, and are a completely different problem, which has nothing to do with men on women's hospital wards.)

marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 20:35

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 19:32

No, of course not. I'm just saying that it's an odd argument to say that we can't identify the bad men but not take the same view of the bad women.

Let’s have some actual numbers here, because even in the US penal system I doubt that the number of these child-abusing and child-murdering women is very high, compared the to the numbers of men convicted of violence and sexual violence against women and children.

Let’s see the percentage of violent offenders in the US, broken down by sex. And, even better, let’s see if you can come up with the numbers for the U.K. Because the number of women actually even in the prison system in the U.K. is tiny compared to the numbers for men; and I very highly doubt that they are all in there for child abuse and murder.