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Feminism: chat

Transwoman on women's ward

680 replies

Sallycinnamum · 17/06/2025 18:34

Had a minor gynae procedure today but nevertheless was very anxious leading up to it.

Was wheeled back to the day ward to be greeted quite literally (started waving at me) by a transwoman in the bed opposite me.

There was no doubt he was a man and being completely immobile due to a spinal anaesthetic with no underwear on I asked the nurse to completely close the curtains so he couldn't look directly at me.

Spoke to a nurse who confirmed it wasn't a mixed ward.

I am so upset. I felt so vulnerable especially as I couldn't walk so had to pee into a bedpan in clear earshot of him.

I've emailed PALS but I feel so bloody fed up of it all. Had a man next to me in the M&S lingerie changing rooms a few weeks ago and was made to feel like a total bigot when I complained to the staff.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 20:42

DuesToTheDirt · 18/06/2025 20:24

Your argument makes no sense. You are saying that children are potentially at risk from their mothers (we don't know which ones will turn out to be bad), and agreeing that women are potentially at risk from men (we don't know which ones will turn out to be bad).

So, as an adult woman, who should I be afraid of? Other women, who are not my mother, and in any case I am an adult not a child? Or men?

(As for the actual small children who really are at risk from their mothers, yes they exist, and are a completely different problem, which has nothing to do with men on women's hospital wards.)

It was a passing remark which people called me on, so I provided data. It wasn't meant to derail the thread.

However, it's not just about your safety. It's about the safety of children being left in the care of other women - mothers of their schoolfriends, anybody in a caring capacity, etc.

I don't think it can be entirely policed. It's fine to acknowledge statistics showing that men commit the majority of certain crimes but I don't think that it necessarily follows that the solution is to avoid all men or impose a male curfew (a common suggestion) on all men just because we can't identify the few bad ones.

I'm not going to stop driving to work in case I get in a crash (a much greater likelihood than being murdered by a man). I'm just going to do what I can to minimise risk, which is what you have to do in most areas of life/health etc.

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 20:44

marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 20:35

Let’s have some actual numbers here, because even in the US penal system I doubt that the number of these child-abusing and child-murdering women is very high, compared the to the numbers of men convicted of violence and sexual violence against women and children.

Let’s see the percentage of violent offenders in the US, broken down by sex. And, even better, let’s see if you can come up with the numbers for the U.K. Because the number of women actually even in the prison system in the U.K. is tiny compared to the numbers for men; and I very highly doubt that they are all in there for child abuse and murder.

OK, but if we're going to talk about numbers then it's a difficult argument about transwomen too.

What percentage of the population are actually transwomen? How many transwomen are in prison compared to the general population? Must be a tiny number.

marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 20:52

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 20:44

OK, but if we're going to talk about numbers then it's a difficult argument about transwomen too.

What percentage of the population are actually transwomen? How many transwomen are in prison compared to the general population? Must be a tiny number.

You’re lucky here, because there are actually more than enough transwomen in the U.K. prison system to crunch the numbers, and people have indeed done so, and it turns out that transwomen are much more likely by quite some way to be incarcerated for sexual offences than either men or women:

1 in every 585 transwomen in England and Wales are convicted sex offenders.

That compares to
1 in every 2750 men

and
1 in every 243,000 women

Source: x.com/genspect/status/1612382282743955458?s=46&t=bVsSGFhHhx42mTTeHgZNlA

marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 20:53

More data here:

Transwoman on women's ward
marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 20:53

And here:

Transwoman on women's ward
marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 20:53

And here:

Transwoman on women's ward
marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 20:56

And finally:

Transwoman on women's ward
marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 21:03

Sorry that images are so bad, had to take screenshots which don’t have great resolution, but just do a little searchy on Google for UK transwomen offending rates and you can easily pick up better images of the data.

Obviously transwomen are a small percentage of the population; but the discrepancy in offending rates is SO large, that it’s difficult not to conclude a strong association, no?

ScupperedbytheSea · 18/06/2025 21:15

RowsOfFlowers · 17/06/2025 19:34

I have a question — if a trans woman has a gender certificate forgot what they’re called, does that trump the Supreme Court ruling and does that allow them to be recognised as female and use female only spaces?

No

ImNunTheWiser · 18/06/2025 21:47

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 20:44

OK, but if we're going to talk about numbers then it's a difficult argument about transwomen too.

What percentage of the population are actually transwomen? How many transwomen are in prison compared to the general population? Must be a tiny number.

Ahhh, now we're talking.
Check out the stats for the number of transwomen in the UK prison estate for sex offences compared to men who are just the boring kind of men that do not claim to be transwomen.
Here's a clue - The figures won't help your argument.

ImNunTheWiser · 18/06/2025 21:49

It's almost like you've done no fucking leg work. Bothered to find out nothing. Joined the conversation five years too late.
Weird, lots of comments here seem to be very retro, we're bored frankly. Do better.

WearyAuldWumman · 18/06/2025 22:14

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 20:18

I don't think anybody is suggesting that trans people do it as a cover to rape women. It's the issue that with self ID they wouldn't need a cover. Any dodgy bloke could just follow the girls swimming team into the changing room.

Which is how Lennon Dolatowski carried out his attacks on girls in Fife. He subsequently used self-ID to access a shelter occupied by women and children.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/06/2025 22:17

marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 21:03

Sorry that images are so bad, had to take screenshots which don’t have great resolution, but just do a little searchy on Google for UK transwomen offending rates and you can easily pick up better images of the data.

Obviously transwomen are a small percentage of the population; but the discrepancy in offending rates is SO large, that it’s difficult not to conclude a strong association, no?

There are really only two possibilities here.

Either trans women are particularly likely to be sex offenders.

Or sex offenders are pretending to be trans women.

Neither of these possibilities supports the argument for self ID, or including trans women in women's spaces.

Bannedontherun · 18/06/2025 22:27

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/06/2025 22:17

There are really only two possibilities here.

Either trans women are particularly likely to be sex offenders.

Or sex offenders are pretending to be trans women.

Neither of these possibilities supports the argument for self ID, or including trans women in women's spaces.

Excellently put.

OakleyAnnie · 18/06/2025 23:12

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 20:42

It was a passing remark which people called me on, so I provided data. It wasn't meant to derail the thread.

However, it's not just about your safety. It's about the safety of children being left in the care of other women - mothers of their schoolfriends, anybody in a caring capacity, etc.

I don't think it can be entirely policed. It's fine to acknowledge statistics showing that men commit the majority of certain crimes but I don't think that it necessarily follows that the solution is to avoid all men or impose a male curfew (a common suggestion) on all men just because we can't identify the few bad ones.

I'm not going to stop driving to work in case I get in a crash (a much greater likelihood than being murdered by a man). I'm just going to do what I can to minimise risk, which is what you have to do in most areas of life/health etc.

Minimise the risk? What like having single sex hospital wards? Good idea! 👍

KnottyAuty · 18/06/2025 23:23

poolcabana · 18/06/2025 14:48

I wonder what would happen if as a patient you refused to be treated by a trans woman. I certainly wouldn’t wanted to be treated by one for a gynae type procedure. It’s all so disturbing and disrespectful. It’s the deceit behind it all that I don’t like.

NHS policy gives the Trust the option to withdraw the patient's right to treatment. They have a zero tolerance approach so if you said "that's a man" of a transwoman Dr, that could be enough - like Sandie Peggie found. Totally unlawful of course and the Trust would not win a legal case if someone could prove that the statement was made reasonably in a relevant context and without malice.

KnottyAuty · 18/06/2025 23:31

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 20:44

OK, but if we're going to talk about numbers then it's a difficult argument about transwomen too.

What percentage of the population are actually transwomen? How many transwomen are in prison compared to the general population? Must be a tiny number.

Others have pointed you towards the figures for prisons and you can get the general stats from the 2022 Scottish Census. However on the Savage Minds podcast Dr Az Hakeem talks about his experience with all the different trans presentations. He comments on how the "prevalence of trans people in Broadmoor is much higher than outside prison".
https://savageminds.substack.com/p/az-hakeem
He was definitely not saying that all trans people are criminals BTW but at least one of the subgroups is very problematic. Fantastically interesting podcast with loads of information; almost too much to absorb in one listen.

Az Hakeem

S2E28

https://savageminds.substack.com/p/az-hakeem

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 23:52

marshmallowpuff · 18/06/2025 20:53

More data here:

Yes, I'm aware of the stats. Your argument wasn't about how likely they are to be criminals when compared to the general population - in the original example we were talking about individuals that had definitely perpetrated abuse or homicide.

Your argument seemed to be "yeah, but how many of them are there really....can't be very many?". I'm saying that that's maybe not the best argument to be employing in a thread about the risks posed by a group that comprises a tiny part of the population. Like, even if every single transwoman was a convicted sex offender it'd still be a tiny fraction of the population.

I'm against self ID and think most of the gender stuff is a load of bollocks (pun intended). However, both my last two points in this thread aren't about my ideological stance. I'm just pointing out logical fallacies.

Saying "most men are fine but we can't tell the good from the bad" could equally be "most women are fine but we can't tell the good from the bad".

Saying "oh, but how many dangerous women are there really" could equally be "oh, but how many transwomen are there really".

I just hate these cheap, point scoring tactics we see from both sides. People saying anything and employing intellectual dishonesty when it suits. The arguments are strong enough IMO without all this keyboard warrior Twitter bickering. But that's just my view.

MagicMichaeICaine · 18/06/2025 23:56

I'm not solely aiming the above at people in this thread.

TooSquaretobehip · 19/06/2025 01:59

Jewel52 · 18/06/2025 10:41

Ok, so women supposedly waving to each other on wards is an act of support/a kindness you say.
Whereas a trans female waving is an act of intimidation causing the op to feel vulnerable.

Right that seems logical.

Once again you're confused. They are not a trans female. They're a transwoman. Female is a sex, and you can't change sex.

TooSquaretobehip · 19/06/2025 02:00

Jewel52 · 18/06/2025 11:09

I’ve had 3 children and gynaecological problems linked to menopause. I’ve found the treatment of female patients within the NHS to be pretty negligent including:-
minimisation of pain
not picking up on complications
overspeaking by male doctors
inappropriate use of student doctors
lack of female medical practitioners in predominantly female medicine
etc

To me these are quantifiable risks to women and I wholeheartedly applaud those who work to highlight and address them. By comparison the artificial and non quantifiable “threat” being posed by trans females who are supposedly demanding to be in single sex spaces is not visible to me.

i am not on that bandwagon because it’s focusing on an anthill when I can see a fucking great mountain.

A woman was RAPED on the ward by a transwoman!

If that isn't worth a mountain to you, then your standards are pretty low.

Btw, if you are female, you'd know that we can MULTITASK. It's not either/or.

MagicMichaeICaine · 19/06/2025 02:07

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. As soon as somebody disagrees on here it's always "if you really were a woman". I'm pretty sceptical that the poster in question is a bloke.

TooSquaretobehip · 19/06/2025 02:15

Jewel52 · 18/06/2025 11:58

I find it interesting that we supposedly need single sex spaces where women can be solely with other biological women in some form of safety and solidarity displaced given the level of antagonism that arises on here once biological female dares to challenge the prevailing Mumsnet view on this.

Secondly, the idea of vulnerability only arises if you buy into the view that someone is identifying as female but still acting in some kind of predatory way towards biological women. E.g the op literally saw the patient, the patient supposedly waved and they immediately perceived a threat. That’s what I meant by not quantified. The threat came from her joining lots of dots and working on assumption. Isn’t that the definition of prejudice? The op could’ve assumed that this person was just going about the business of recovering in a hospital but instead knit together a Mumsnet worthy anecdote.

Outside of Mumsnet this isn’t a thing. I work in a female dominated environment, have 3 sisters, belong to clubs etc. No one is talking about this.

For the third time, they are identifying as WOMAN. Not female. They are transGENDER. Not transsex. Woman is the gender. Female is the sex. Your ignorance on this is astounding. If you can't even show enough respect for the topic to get the fundamentals correct you shouldn't be speaking on it.

Secondly, why do you think our foremother feminists fought so hard for female only spaces? Why are you taking a shit on their headstones and saying everything those who went before you achieved for us was for nothing?

Poll after poll after poll (professional polling companies like YouGov) shows that women overwhelmingly want single sex spaces to remain female only. Either you surround yourself with handmaidens and dickpanderers or they have sussed your anti-feminist views so don't speak about it to you as they would know you'd make life difficult for them. Women are pretty good at working out which women are safe to speak to or not.