Still confused about patriarchy

[PixelZing]

What's the feminist take on the fact that, even if we live in such patriarchy, the attention given to issues affecting men/boys is insignificant compared to the same attention given to issues of women/girls?

The list of such issues seems pretty long to me (paternity leave, family court bias, domestic abuse shelters, unequal sentencing, workplace fatalities, due process for false accusations, under-representation in HEAL, men's health funding, suicide rates, homelessness, ...) so I'd say there is plenty to advocate about.

(and BTW I don't even understand why we clump men and boys in the same category, wouldn't be more humane to put boys in the same category of women/girls, since they are affected by similar problems that affect girls?)

I definitely blame men for murdering and raping women at epidemic rates globally. There's no way to get round this. Nothing constructive ever happens because women are unable to fix this and men just don't want to.

At the moment it’s just a lot of ridiculous divide and conquer politics. The situation for men AND women keeps getting worse and we are being encouraged to blame each other rather than work together. The media and politicians fan the conflict and we all lose as nothing constructive ever takes place except finger pointing.

This x1000. 🙏

I definitely blame men for murdering and raping women at epidemic rates globally. There's no way to get round this. Nothing constructive ever happens because women are unable to fix this and men just don't want to.

Well, if we look at the UK, 156 women were murdered in the year ending 2024. There are just over 33m men. So that's 0.0004% of men murdering if we assume that all murders were committed by individual men.

Is 0.0004% an epidemic? I wouldn't have said so. Not that it's not terrible when it happens, and men are over defo over represented. But the reality is that most blokes won't ever meet a male murderer and are just normal guys going about their lives trying to provide for their families.

What can the average bloke do? He's not superman.

Men have tended to fall back on wanting women to fix everything for them even as they simultaneously suffer and benefit from patriarchy.

Not sure about this either tbh.

When something happens like Putin invading a country out of nowhere, it's usually men that stand up to address it. In this particular case the men weren't even allowed to leave the country. They had to stay and fight like it or not.

And in the US men have to sign up for the draft (selective service) by law. If they don't they lose access to things like federal benefits and have in theory committed a civil offence. However, women will get things like federal financial aid by default without having to sign their life away and agree to be called to arms if necessary.

It's not great for the vast majority of non wealthy men. However, male culture is such that they just get on with it and don't complain.

My interpretation of the patriarchy is this:

For almost all of human civilization, we have followed the rule of "might is right". And because men are stronger, are more aggressive and take more risks this has led to the majority of dominant societies being ruled by men. Women are not as strong and can't group together to overthrow male oppressors. In the (right-wing beloved) Roman times, even "free" women were treated as property.

But of course the key to understanding patriarchy is knowing that sociopathic men who are leaders don't value other men at all. They need their support, yes, but don't actually care about them one bit. Trump is a good example, but really all of human history is a succession of wars where your average men die at the hands of other men because a very small number of powerful people (almost exclusively men) crave power.

So, to ask how it is that the patriarchy sometimes favours women at the expense of men is to misunderstand what the patriarchy is for.

The patriarchy does not exist to benefit ALL men per se, it's really the servant of the men in charge (or who want to be in charge). If other men benefit, it's because it's advantageous for the men at the top. Elon Musk is a big fan of the patriarchy, Andrew Tate is also. They use patriarchal ideas to oppress women and manipulate men, often using the oppression of women as the main tool of that manipulation. Both these men encourage lower-status men to objectify women as a way of cementing their status as alpha males.

This point is really key:- it's much harder to be a successful sociopathic alpha male if society tries to dismantle the power structure that enables them. That's why Trump was only ever going to become President as a Republican, because conservative and religious Republicans are pro patriarchy. It's also why so many Trump fanboys are whiney men who think the world is against them, they crave the illusion he sells them. They are soft targets for Trump's manipulations.

Yes, I think these are good points.

Peace is unfortunately always underpinned by the ability to enforce peace. How does the famous saying go

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf".

Also there’s the saying - if you want peace be prepared for war.

Coming to a primarily female forum to whine about how patriarchy doesn't exist and how much poor men suffer is disingenuous and an own goal.
Here is a saying I think will resonate with your MRA mindset:
"hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times"

Except patriarchy has created good times for men for so long, for 2000 years and counting all men have benefited from the subjugation of women and our unpaid labour. So those hard times have created strong women, taking care of ourselves, fighting back against patriarchy and changing things for the better for all women. And the good times for men, benefitting from our labour for so long its become an expectation, has created entitlement and laziness in so many.

And to suggest mens healthcare and research is somehow less than womens is ridiculous, more is spent on men getting hard dicks than all female specific healthcare research.

"Studies have shown that research funding for ED is significantly higher than for female-specific conditions like endometriosis or premenstrual syndrome (PMS). For example, one study reported that five times more research goes into ED than PMS, despite PMS affecting 90% of women and ED affecting only 19% of men"

Read Invisible Women if you want real facts and statistics on female inequality in the western world (lets not even start on what women suffer in the middle east and africa). But Im fairly certain you wont as it doesnt suit the victim narrative you want to wallow in.

The usual whataboutery lol.

This is a public forum. If you're not prepared for a discussion then maybe better to find a private forum or start one yourself. Ironic given your username. 😂

It's always the same though. Somebody posts a fairly isolated example - no doubt horrific but far from something we see in our daily lives. Then all the sweeping statements follow. "Men are ghastly", "I couldn't hate them any more", etc, etc.

But then if somebody dares to point out that 0.0004% of men don't really represent the majority, it's all ad hominem attacks and cries of misogyny, although they wouldn't dare say similar things about other demographics.

And then we have the good old 'namalt' which is basically the new "I'm not racist but...". A disclaimer to quickly roll out before you start making sweeping generalisations.

"Obviously NAMALT but...." and then comes the good stuff, usually a statement like "but most of them are" based on a dodgy conclusion like 0.0004% of them being murderers.

Most people see straight through it.

“Be grateful that we’re not all violent misogynists” is a bit of a weedy argument.

The point is that if your average man decided to hurt a woman - at home, at work or in the street - odds are that he would get away with it. Taking on a violent husband, a pavement attacker or handsy boss is, for a woman, a high-risk strategy. You might win; on the other hand, you might lose your livelihood, or your life. And/or the lives of your children.

Great to hear, then, that you’ve chosen to be nice to women, then. Lucky old us. Have a medal.

To get back to the topic though....

The concept of the patriarchy relies on the belief that women live in some patriarchal state of oppression. However, most economists will point to it being more a case of both sexes making different choices. Certainly in modern day England I struggle to see women as particularly subjugated.

For every thread about the patriarchy and men holding the power there seems to be another full of women that don't want to work or would rather just work PT.

Currently, there's a thread in AIBU titled 'just want to be a housewife' where the OP states "I originally wanted to do well in my work but now I don’t care. All I want is to look after my daughter, clean my home, and spend my time cooking and gardening."

Plenty of posters are agreeing saying that they're happy to let their husband be the main earner. This is more of a privilege than an oppression, yet feminists will use these statistics to try and paint a picture of the poor oppressed wife forced to give up her career when it was actually what she wanted.

20 pages of comments like the below. This is why men earn more and hold more power. However, the women that married them also benefit from it by and large.

"I had a Big Job. Turns out I’m dispensable. Whereas I’m indispensable to my family."

"I’m 20 years down the line from you, gave up a big career that was advancing when I got near the end of my maternity leave and have never regretted it."

"I feel like we’ve been sold that this is wrong though, and that women aren’t allowed to be anything other than fully independent, self-financed power houses who can do it all. I have met a fair few who scorn the idea of stay at home mothers. I feel like it’s not okay anymore."

"I never saw myself as someone who would find joy in domesticity."

"already made flapjacks and a quiche this morning while the 3yo is at nursery, when she gets home we are going to the allotment. I used to love my job, and lived to work, now I dream about winning enough on the lottery that I don’t have to go back."

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5320001-to-just-want-to-be-a-housewife?page=2

The old trope that anybody who ever disagrees with a feminist must be a bloke.

Seems that the majority of women are blokes nowadays lol.

For the hard of thinking, none of those women would be talking up the SAHM life if their husbands - on whom they depend financially - were caught in bed with someone else, or slapped them about, or coerced & controlled them. And if their husbands happened to die or be disabled, they'd be back into their work suits faster than Prosecco down a WAG.

"But we men mostly choose not to be like that, and the abused women are silent" is hardly a rebuttal. Would you get in a boat without lifejackets? No. But most mothers have no choice but to do just that. No wonder they tell the world they're overjoyed to be baking cookies. When you're miles from shore, it doesn't do to think about how deep and how cold the water might be.

There is no demographic that tries harder to control women than feminists! Any 'wrongthink' is quickly addressed.

Not so much "wrongthink" as "bollocks you can't defend". If you're a bot, then fair play to you. If you're a human being, go and learn how to reason.

OK, so maybe you can actually answer my question.

If 0.0004% of men being murderers is an 'epidemic', does 9% of women having a criminal record represent a plague of biblical proportions in terms of female criminality?

If not then why?

Bit ironic to say I need to 'learn to reason' when I'm the only one actually backing my argument up with fact and statistics. I just believe in calling out sexism lol. Isn't that what we're supposed to do?

I think you should address that to the person who said it. Unless you thought that all women are a giant lady-borg?

Can anyone be bothered with this guy? I cant, he doesn't make any sense, keeps roloing out his own made up statistic ( 0.0004%) like its meaningful. Meanwhile we're busy trying to make sense of a woman being murdered by a man every 10 minutes globally, or raped every second. Along with our own experiences of sexual assault and the shit entitled lazy behaviour we see all around us.
Dude move back to reddit where everyone will agree with you and you can wallow in the idea of how hard done by you are.

I don't think men and boys are hard done by.
Also, we do often group boys with women and girls. There are many, many services for women and children, which includes boys.

A small number of highly successful men are in positions of power and authority, however your sons, bothers and husbands are probably not these people.

Average men face a wide range of serious issues which disproportionality affect them and society has little or no interest in tackling.

This is a short list of such issues:

Health & Mental Wellbeing

1. Higher suicide rates – Men are significantly more likely to die by suicide, despite women attempting it more often.
2. Lower life expectancy – On average, men live shorter lives than women.
3. Higher rates of substance abuse – Men are more likely to abuse alcohol and drugs.
4. Poor mental health help-seeking – Men are less likely to seek help for mental health issues.
5. Occupational deaths – Men are the majority in high-risk jobs (e.g. construction, military), leading to more workplace fatalities.
6. Deaths in armed conflict – Historically and currently, men make up the vast majority of combat deaths.
7. Testicular and prostate cancer – Male-specific cancers are sometimes underfunded or receive less public attention.

Legal & Criminal Justice

1. Higher incarceration rates – Men are far more likely to be imprisoned than women.
2. Harsher sentencing – Men often receive longer sentences than women for the same crimes.
3. Higher rates of violent crime victimisation and perpetration – Men are more likely to be involved in violence, both as victims and offenders.
4. Lower likelihood of gaining child custody – In family courts, mothers are more often awarded custody.
5. Compulsory military service – In some countries, only men are required to serve.
6. False paternity or lack of reproductive rights – Men may be held financially responsible in cases of paternity fraud or have limited say in reproductive outcomes.

Education & Employment

1. Underachievement in education – Boys are now underperforming in many Western education systems, especially in literacy.
2. High dropout rates – Men are more likely to drop out of school or university.
3. Workplace discrimination in certain professions – Men face barriers or stigma in roles like nursing, childcare, or teaching.
4. Less support for victims of domestic abuse – Male victims of abuse often lack services or face stigma.

Social & Cultural

1. Lack of emotional support networks – Men are less likely to have strong social support systems.
2. Pressure to conform to harmful masculinity norms – Societal expectations can discourage vulnerability or emotional expression.
3. Homelessness – Men make up the majority of the homeless population in most countries.

Thanks Chat GPT!

And yet despite all this, most women who have ever lived, have lived under the control of a man.

How come?

As clearly stated, yes - there are a handful of highly successful / influential men in the world. However, this is a miniscule fraction of the male population with the reminder suffering an awful lot of hardship.

Nope: a guy doesn’t have to be successful, well-paid or even happy to control a woman. He just needs her to be dependent on him. Power is about control.

On what grounds are you assuming most women have been dependant on men?

How do you think most mothers survive financially?