Still confused about patriarchy

[PixelZing]

What's the feminist take on the fact that, even if we live in such patriarchy, the attention given to issues affecting men/boys is insignificant compared to the same attention given to issues of women/girls?

The list of such issues seems pretty long to me (paternity leave, family court bias, domestic abuse shelters, unequal sentencing, workplace fatalities, due process for false accusations, under-representation in HEAL, men's health funding, suicide rates, homelessness, ...) so I'd say there is plenty to advocate about.

(and BTW I don't even understand why we clump men and boys in the same category, wouldn't be more humane to put boys in the same category of women/girls, since they are affected by similar problems that affect girls?)

I accidentally merged the links. The top half works if clicked on. But here you go. Knock yourself out.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/

https://thenewfeminist.co.uk/2025/03/new-yougov-poll-reveals-only-35-of-britons-identify-as-feminist/

What's a feminist?

I posted a video.

The people screaming at the police and making pig noises are feminists. So are the ones calling that guy 'scum' for wanting to attend a talk on male suicide after two of his friends killed themselves.

There you go - absolutely clueless. Most people rattling off misogynist crap would at least make an attempt to define what they were talking about.

https://yougov.co.uk/international/articles/45362-who-feminist-west-2023-all-depends-question

Well, that kind of proves my point. If feminism is framed as strictly being about equality of the sexes then lots more people identify.

However, when we're talking about the reality of feminism that most people have experienced then most of them are like "fuck no, I dont want to be like that lot."

My impression of the patriachy is that it has a very narrow definition of what a man is i.e aggressive, authoritairan etc..

This obviously harms men, rejects all but a very narrow proportion of society.

The issue is, everytime this comes up it gets smacked down so quickly because the people who consider themselves "masculine" are at the top and they want to keep it that way. Women can't really tell men, what it means to be a man, and hey when that (pretty mild) Gillette advert came on, it was hugely ridculed.

You think feminists are women who grunt like pigs. You have absolutely no clue whatsoever what a feminist is. You haven't even attempted to understand what feminism is.

Instead you've spouted bullshit for pages and pages in the Feminism forum.

I have no interest whatsoever in anything you have to say. If you want to talk shit with a load of like-minded halfwits, I believe 4chan have a seat at the table for you.

Has anyone mentioned working on oil rigs yet?

I thought it was mines… specifically coal mines.

Maybe be it depends on what wave of ally you are?

Joking apart-I do wish there was somewhere we could discuss this stuff in good faith. There are always good and thoughtful points hidden in the undergrowth.

What is this bollocks about ‘only 7% of women identify as a feminists’? A large Ipsos survey only last year found that 49% of women in the UK said they were feminists.

The OP may not be an incel but the posts are full of incel talking points. Women marry rich men then sit about getting their nails done and laughing at low status men. The idea that it ludicrous to say that it’s rape if a man has sex with a woman who has said no because ‘real rape’ is done at knifepoint, and that the courts favour women over men.

Be worth a try though

Simple test of power: who has more control?

In traditional marriage, the man has all of the financial control.

Financial control isn't everything, but until other forms of control, it gives power over the essentials of survival.

Where traditional marriage dominates, then - as it did in our own culture until not long ago - most women are unequal to the man who controls them.

It's no coincidence that such cultures view women as unworthy of political or professional power. The people who do all the free work are always seen this way. Look at how the British used to treat the Irish. Look at how people of colour in the South had to live. Look at how the Spartans treated the Helots.

Where women have low status, so do children. As women have gained rights and recognition, so too have children. This is not a coincidence.

We're slowly unpicking the human wreckage that "traditional marriage" generates. We're slowly taking steps towards a set-up that respects the family as a unit made out of real-life human beings - children, women and men - rather than as a grinning hallucination.

We're getting there. With every man pushing a buggy on a weekday morning, with every mother who chooses whether or not to stay at home, with every child living safe from violence - we're getting there.

Of course, like any social change, this brings losers as well as winners. Once upon a time, most men could find a dependent woman. Guys didn’t have to be fit, or funny, or decent, or faithful. A man could be a pork scratching in a nylon suit and still have a faithful spouse doing the dishes for him.

Times have changed: women today have more choices. Bizarrely perhaps though, the response of many men has not been to learn the guitar, or develop a personality, or to do any of the other things that people used do to make themselves more attractive.

Instead, they take up residence online and troll feminists. And then they wonder why life keeps on feeling so unfair…

My DH (who is both fit and funny!) tells a story about being at university. He was doing a classic STEM degree, obviously with a lot of nerdy men. DH has always been fit and funny so he ‘dated’ <cough> a lot. His nerdy friends all whined about not getting any. He said, “get to the gym, clean up, buy new clothes and be charming and a good mate to women” the idea being their female friends would be a reference for them with women. Nope, just whining about it and no change. They could not fathom why DH was getting laid and they weren’t. He gave them the roadmap, they ignored it. DH has always had good female friends, always made an effort and has always been (for want of a better word) an ally. It’s not actually difficult.

Or you choose no gym, crap food, no personal care, being a lazy, irritating arse but accept no one is going to want you. That’s a choice too. And a fine one.

My DH (who is both fit and funny!) tells a story about being at university. He was doing a classic STEM degree, obviously with a lot of nerdy men. DH has always been fit and funny so he ‘dated’ <cough> a lot. His nerdy friends all whined about not getting any. He said, “get to the gym, clean up, buy new clothes and be charming and a good mate to women” the idea being their female friends would be a reference for them with women. Nope, just whining about it and no change. They could not fathom why DH was getting laid and they weren’t. He gave them the roadmap, they ignored it. DH has always had good female friends, always made an effort and has always been (for want of a better word) an ally. It’s not actually difficult.

Or you choose no gym, crap food, no personal care, being a lazy, irritating arse but accept no one is going to want you. That’s a choice too. And a fine one.

My DH (who is both fit and funny!) tells a story about being at university. He was doing a classic STEM degree, obviously with a lot of nerdy men. DH has always been fit and funny so he ‘dated’ <cough> a lot. His nerdy friends all whined about not getting any. He said, “get to the gym, clean up, buy new clothes and be charming and a good mate to women” the idea being their female friends would be a reference for them with women. Nope, just whining about it and no change. They could not fathom why DH was getting laid and they weren’t. He gave them the roadmap, they ignored it. DH has always had good female friends, always made an effort and has always been (for want of a better word) an ally. It’s not actually difficult.

Or you choose no gym, crap food, no personal care, being a lazy, irritating arse but accept no one is going to want you. That’s a choice too. And a fine one.

He said, “get to the gym, clean up, buy new clothes and be charming

This is true but try telling it to a fat woman!

On here it always seems to be "oh, he's an arsehole. He should love you for who you are. Three stone isn't that much!"

But sorry bit of a derail. I agree that a lot of people of both sexes would be better quitting the whinging and doing something about it.

Fat women don’t threaten and sometimes murder men who won’t comply. And the advice you’re talking about is when people are already in relationships. Not looking for relationships. My fat single friends all know losing weight means more dates.

Murder? What's that got to do with losing a few lbs to go on the pull. 🤣 Dramatic much.

I’m talking about incels. Keep up.

Are you saying your DH was friends with a group of incels? I don't understand the relevance to the discussion.

Ultimately the people that hold the power - men and therefore a male dominated or patriarchal society - punishes weakness in other men so of course they're not going to help what they perceive to be weaker men. They very rarely help women - we do almost all of it ourselves. Men have tended to fall back on wanting women to fix everything for them even as they simultaneously suffer and benefit from patriarchy.