Julie Bindel and JK Rowling laughing about the Musk Nazi salute incident

[HumHU3]

Thought someone might have already done a thread on this. I don’t always agree with Bindel but had a lot of time for her, but this has really surprised me. Not sure why they would be finding it amusing - Musk and Trump are hardly figures of fun, for feminists especially, whatever you think of the (clearly far right!) salute.

No, the latter, I agree with you.

There was no difference. I'm just saying you can't just look at a photograph and say it's a Nazi salute. You need to see what was happening and the context. He was throwing is arms around seconds before this.

Well, yes, it tells you I’m sensible and considered.

"There seems to be ongoing deliberate attempts to draw some gender critical feminists into far right ideology as a whole, which I think is really shameful and dangerous."

People have been saying that those who dare challenge the notion that some men are women have been name called as far right for over a decade now. That we feminists are secretly funded by far right/ religious fundamentalists/ conservative Americans etc etc etc.

It has no effect now.

No one cares if people call them far right because they care about children being abused or women's rights being violated. It's just name calling and has been done too many times.

If you disagree with Elon Musks views on a particular topic, you will need to say why. Calling him far right or a nazi is just nonsense.

@Rummly we will have to agree to disagree on that.

I’m sorry I think you misunderstood what I meant by “difference”. My point really was what was said just before the saluting?

Well I'm actually really glad that they don't just follow the line dogmatically and that they have their own thoughts.

It was at the very end with loud clapping and music. He came dancing out and thanked the crowd for "making it happen", before placing his right hand over his heart and then thrusting the same arm out into air straight ahead of him.

I think a few people on this site, one weirdo in particular, see Nazis at every turn. Calling out far right or 'you know who you are' is just getting tired. The far right baiters are often far wrong. Musk is very pro-semetic.

Didn't Hitler once dance out on stage thanking the Germans for making it happen?

Oh no, he didn't.

Maybe it looked like a signal to those weird proud/loud/whatever they’re called boys? I got the distinct impression Musk and Hulk Hogan really felt they “made it happen”.

Sure looked like a nazi salute to me.

I've been active in the women's movement since the early 1980's. Politically I score to the left of Jeremy Corbyn and Caroline Lucas on all the online rate-my-politics web quizzes.

It wasn't until the left stabbed women (especially lesbians) in the back and dismissed us as bigots when we tried to warn about the dangers of reclassifying males as females, and what was happening to gay and autistic children sucked onto the trans mutilation and sterilisation conveyor belt that it finally dawned on me that our trusted media sources (The Guardian and BBC) were very selective about what they published and what stories were brushed under the carpet.

When right wing media outlets were the only places that allowed the voices of concerned women to be heard (while they were banned from Women's hour on the BBC if they wanted to talk about the dangers of gender ideology and the way all safeguarding regulation was being steamrollered) I realised that it was stupid to ignore available platforms that were not censoring (and punishing) opposing opinions.

I'm with Kelly-Jay Keen in that I'll talk to any fucker who will join me in the fight against brainwashing children and starting them on drugs to stunt their development so that their brains never mature enough to realise that pretending to be the opposite sex (or no sex at all) is a very bad choice. Or who will work to get male rapists out of female jails and cheating boys and men out of women's sports.

Politically I'm still very left wing, but at 67 years old I've got neither fucks, time, nor energy to waste on the patriarchal left wing political parties, or the Vichy Feminists who are still trying to suck up to them in the hope of getting a seat at the table (after they've provided the tea, coffee, sandwiches and cakes and promised to do the washing up afterwards).

Fantastic post @stealthsquirrelnutkin thank you!

It surprised me too from Bindel, a lot. I love her but he definitely knew what he was doing. And to act like it's ridiculous to even wonder about it is very bizarre of her.

And on the was it/wasn’t it debate I’d like to add my view that it clearly wasn’t a nazi salute.

Or indeed any kind of ‘salute’.

It was a spontaneous gesture more akin to a still wave, reaching out to the crowd in excitement and gratitude, which from a stage meant his hand faced downwards towards face towards the crowd, rather than facing his hand upward which would have looked like him beckoning them to stand up in school assembly or “all rise” at church! There isn’t a natural way to make a hand out gesture with one hand that doesn’t end up looking a bit nazi-ish, I’ve been trying while working out what the fuck he was doing.

I’m not a fan of his, and certainly not a fan of Trump.

But that doesn’t make this awkward hand gesture a clear sign that either of them are now coming out of the closet as nazis the minute Trump got into power. The whole thing is ludicrous and absolutely no way should he be apologising for the fact that some people misinterpreted his excitement as something else.

What I find interesting is some GC feminists excusing and celebrating Trump and Musk happily ignore all the other misogyny they embody just because they agree on the GC issue.

You don't have to cheer on the far right to be GC.

It astounds me that some so called feminists do.

I think the point they are both making is that it's easy to take a snapshot with someone holding their arm in such a way that it might be mistaken for a Nazi salute when it isn't. I watched the uncut video of his speech. He said something like 'I thank you with all my heart' (can't quite remember the exact words) then put his hand firmly on his heart before shooting his arm out towards the audience. He did it twice, one in each direction. I took at as him miming the gesture of taking love from his heart and projecting it outwards to his supporters. He was very hyper, very energetic when he did it. It doesn't translate well in a still photograph, but frankly I can't get too worked up about it.

That's exactly as I see it.

Gosh, nuance. Imagine that!

But how does that work when you’re talking about people who are anti abortion, anti lgb rights, either promote and support rapists and abusers or are themselves rapists and abusers - and so on?
Seems to me that Trump and co are anti trans because they want to enforce traditional gender roles (and because of a
more general ‘anti-woke’ propaganda campaign), which will be incredibly harmful for women. Do you think feminists can work with the right to quash the trans movement then work against them to win back women’s rights?
I’n genuinely curious btw, this is in no way an attack on your position. Also not saying there’s an easy answer when it comes to resolving this split within feminism but surely aligning with the right on any level is never the way and will always bring more problems.

Do you really think it is right wing and aligning with the right to be happy that biological reality has been written back into USA federal law?

Me too - the Nazi salute is straight in front of the body, not to the side.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment, I can't believe you have the gall to talk about this given your username. Anyone can see what you are referring to and the awful hatred it points to. You might not have intended that when you chose it - but intent doesn't matter, it is what is perceived and the people I have spoken to all agree. Some of which are experts in the subject with highly regarded academic credentials on the matter and they are clear you must have picked this with intent.

Given the heightened tensions in the world, especially to the minority you username points to, I hope you will make a full and public apology. Please note, we will be scrutinising your choice of words most carefully for any signs of further hatred.

Yes when you consider it in context of the ideology that it’s part of. In my view it’s motivated by a return to traditional gender roles and continuing an assault on women’s rights that began in the first term. To these people, biological reality also means that women are the lesser sex whose role is to stay home, raise kids and be subservient.

That doesn’t really stand up as an ironic comparison does it?