Did Harris lose because she was a woman?

[username7891]

Apparently even after calling Puerto Rico a floating island of trash, many immigrants still voted for Trump. It's been argued that some sectors of society simply won't vote for a woman.

Even on here, I saw a post asking if a woman would be respected by world leaders.

It doesn't seem as though what people said really mattered. Harris didn't hone in on the key issues which was immigration and the economy. She also didn't present an alternative to Biden .

What she should have done is exactly what Trump did - tell people what they wanted to hear irrespective of whether she could deliver it or not.

MissConductUS

I listened to both Rogan’s podcast with TRUMP & JD Vance, you get a much better feel for the person when it’s just Joe and the interviewer in the room no script they were both on for nearly three hours. Moving forward this kind of interview will be a must for politicians. People are losing faith In The MSM.

@MissConductUS

If you're tolerant of a politician repeatedly using cruel language and demagoguery targeting marginalised people as a central focus of their political campaign and your reasoning is you support them because you want to pay less at the supermarket, then I'm going to assume you have shitty moral values. Long before concentration camps people supported Hitler because he promised to bring them out of an economic depression and make their country great again - and he made these promises while shouting about Jews being criminals who were 'poisoning the blood' of Germany. I don't want to hear anything about Trump not being Hitler. I'm not saying he's Hitler. I'm saying he's used many of the same political and rhetorical strategies to increase his popularity with ordinary Americans, and it's morally repugnant.

@Nanalisa60

"I listened to both Rogan’s podcast with TRUMP & JD Vance"

It's known as 'client journalism' and it's very popular on the right. Rogan outed himself as a Trump supporter just before the election. Fact checkers identified 32 falsehoods from Donald Trump in that interview - Trump wasn't really pressed on anything. No wonder Trump fans loved the soft-balling.

Personally I'd like to see Trump interviewed by Mehdi Hasan for 3 hours. And a fact checker. Trump would have soiled himself within 5 minutes.

"Moving forward this kind of interview will be a must for politicians."

Fascists and autocrats generally avoid exposing themselves to proper journalists. Of course they do - they want to control the narrative, as Trump did with Rogan. You should have higher expectations of your leaders.

"Harris didn't hone in on the key issues which was immigration and the economy. She also didn't present an alternative to Biden ."

Harris had a clear economic plan and the support of large numbers of the most respected economists in the country.

But whatever - keep needing to remind people here that her vision, and Bidens in 2020, absolutely swung it with black voters where she had a super majority. You should be asking yourself why there were such stark racial differences in the vote.

and your reasoning is you support them because you want to pay less at the supermarket, then I'm going to assume you have shitty moral values.

I have never voted for Trump or supported him in any way, and I never will.

I'm saying he's used many of the same political and rhetorical strategies to increase his popularity with ordinary Americans

I think, to one degree or another, all politicians tell specific segments of the population things that they think will increase their popularity.

I'm not saying he's Hitler.

You've just compared him to Hitler.

I thought the whole point of this thread was to help people understand the US election results. From my perspective as an American, I've tried to do that as calmly and factually as I can. I'm sorry that you find that irritating for some reason.

@Nanalisa60 I’m more concerned that the Labour Party has never had a woman as leader ,or a person of colour as their leader!!

It's because UK voters are not ready to vote for a woman or person of colour who supports a progressive agenda.

@MissConductUS

"I'm not saying he's Hitler.
You've just compared him to Hitler."

I've said he used many of the same political and rhetorical strategies as Hitler did in his rise to power: stigmatising and blaming minorities for the ills of the country while promising to 'make Germany great again' with an appeal to the past.

Feel free to contradict my assertion by proving that either Hitler didn't do this, or Donald Trump hasn't also repeatedly used these strategies in his election campaign.

And let's face it - I'm not the only one to point this out. JD Vance, before he became the emotional support politician of the tech oligarch Peter Thiel compared Trump to Hitler and said he was 'reprehensible' and 'an idiot'.

Taking what people personally think of either if you list their policies and promises side by side whose make more sense? And would work better?

If you can pick one are you doing so because one is a man or woman?

"I'm sorry that you find that irritating for some reason."

I'm not irritated.

Maybe while you're here you can explain why you think Harris and Biden in 2020 have a super majority with black voters, who didn't seem to be animated to vote for an elderly felon and raging xenophobe in hope of cheaper butter at the supermarket.

I think we've been around on this twice, most recently

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/5203813-did-harris-lose-because-she-was-a-woman?reply=139762647&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

Each party has demographic cohorts that reliably support it. Black voters historically have been a very reliable source of support for Democrats. While that can and does change over time, it happens slowly. It's very concerning for the Democrats that they lost black and Hispanic support at all from 2020 to 2024.

Strong majority black support for Democrats goes back to the 1960s and the civil rights movement. Democrats have also been stronger supporters of social welfare programs than Republicans. People vote in what they see as their self-interest. Obviously, a majority of black voters think that they'll be better off with a Democrat as President.

I'm not sure why you keep raising this question again and again.

Wouldn't be any point in doing this because there's no detail in Trump's policies and nobody who votes for him cares.

Even with his mass deportations - there are people on this board insisting he's only going to deport criminals, despite the fact that he's not indicated this AT ALL. Trump supporters aren't interested the details. That's not how demagoguery works. Demagoguery doesn't work through rational arguments and an appeal to reason. It works through an appeal to the emotions.

I've seen loads of Trump voters saying they 'just want to feel safe again'. Well violent and serious crime in the US in 2022 was at a 50 year low. No Trump supporters believe this, even though it's true. We're living in a 'post truth' world.

izimbra

Joe Rogan, Elon Musk & RF Kennedy were all Democrat's , they felt that they didn’t leave the Democratic Party but the democrats party left them. The economy, immigration, and the whole trans and men in girls sports were the main reasons people voted for the republicans and obviously a lot of normal democrats also decided to vote for Trump other wise had would have not won with such a landslide. Even In States like California they made big gains

@MissConductUS
"Democrats have also been stronger supporters of social welfare programs than Republicans. People vote in what they see as their self-interest. Obviously, a majority of black voters think that they'll be better off with a Democrat as President."

But if you think Trump's economic plans and plans to deport vast numbers of undocumented people will benefit all Americans - including those at the bottom end of the income distribution - why wouldn't that appeal just as much to black people? And Trump's white, evangelical base are people from communities that are often heavily reliant on welfare, medicaid and medicare.

You think white voters are choosing what they think is better for the country - ie 'MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN', and black voters are primarily thinking about welfare? Really? Why am I not surprised.

It wouldn't occur to you that a candidate who's had enthusiastic support from every single white supremacist in the country, one who has vilified legal black migrants with fake stories about them eating people's pets, and promised to stop the police ever being prosecuted for killing people at work, might not feel like a 'safe' candidate to the vast majority of black Americans?

"The economy, immigration, and the whole trans and men in girls sports were the main reasons people voted for the republicans"

I think you mean 'the main reasons white people voted for the Republicans, because the vast majority of black people didn't.

@izimbra, why do you think that Trump's black and Hispanic support increased between 2020 and 2024?

izimbra

think you mean 'the main reasons white people voted for the Republicans, because the vast majority of black people didn't.

i think you will find that the republicans won votes from both the black community and the Hispanic community , he could not have won 312 seat compared to 226 that the democrats won without a big swing in both these communities.

izimbra

you may find this chart useful!!

What's a "progressive agenda"?

If you mean a hard left, anti- capitalist agenda then no, I don't support that.

Why the Democrats lost the Latino vote

The short version of this article is the Democrats took Latino support for granted.

The Guardian - Latino vote
Reuters

Several women and girls last year were raped and murdered by illegal immigrants.

So they would have been alive if we had proper border control. They’ve become household names: Rachel Morin, Laken Riley, Jocelyn Nungaray.

Why should they have to die, because it would be ‘mean’ to enforce border control?

I didn't say it was mean to want border control. How is Trump going to control the border?

They also tend to lump Hispanics into one group, despite the diversity of this group and their lack of identification with each other.

For example, the average Dominican (who share an island with Haitians) has views on Haitians that you would
find very racist—although it’s their lived experience.

Venezualans and Cubans tend to be very anti-communist whilst Puerto Ricans tend to vote left. For example.

I didn't say it was mean to want border control. How is Trump going to control the border?

Stay in Mexico was very effective. We don’t have to allow people to cross the border and declare asylum, and I think moving forward we will be going back to that policy. They can declare at a local port of entry (and likely be rejected)