Does anyone feel like they have gone too far with gender critical?

[Francine83]

I have been really interested in lots of the gender critical ideas and have read a lot. I deeply share a lot of the very real feminist concerns. But does anyone ever feel that they went a bit far with some of these ideas? I know a lot of us have been exploring these ideas for a while now and I'm interested to hear how things have evolved for people. I would really welcome a reasonable and genuine chat about this.

We all have our different lines in the sand.

I personally have no issue with post-op trans women in changing rooms for example, but I know some GC feminists do.

Yes. Because they're still not women, even though they've had surgery.

A man with missing body parts is a man. Other men should expand their understanding of men to welcome all men, even wearing dresses, into their spaces.
Men in sports need to welcome men with plaits and lipstick, they're still men!

How can you tell which man is pre-op and which man is post-op?

They're still not women, but I feel that:

a) gender realignment surgery is evidence that they're genuinely trans and not just using self ID as an excuse to access female spaces.

b) They look (both clothes and naked) closer to women than men, so to me it just makes the most sense both logically and in terms of comfort - I'd rather share a changing room with a post-op transwoman than a post-op transman complete with beard, penis and hairy chest.

Just my position.

The sexual assault rates aren't reassigned with gender reassignment so I'd much rather share a changing room with a biological woman no matter what she looks like.

Exactly.

And just to be accurate: a load of arm flesh isn't a penis. No surgery can create either a vagina or a penis.

If that was the rule, how would you check?

We know we can’t rely on good faith.

Is this one of those lazy journalist / troll/ AI generated posts?

An OP who’s first and only post is on a contentious issue, a one or two sentence question with no personal experiences or specific situations, and then no further interaction.

There seem to be an awful lot of them about.

Transmen don't have a penis, even if they have had a part of their forearm attached to their groin area

Transwomen don't have a vagina, even if they have had their penis removed and so they don't look closer to women. They look like a man who has had his penis removed.

How does one legislate to allow men who have had their penis removed into female single sex spaces whilst not allowing men who still have a penis to enter those spaces.

Possession of a GRC won't work as there is no requirement for any person to have had surgery to obtain a GRC.

As its not possible to fully 'trans' into the opposite sex, there's never an end point. A transman for example is a women who wishes she was a man. Wishing, operations, drugs, law which denies material reality, doesn't change actual being.

No human has successfully changed sex. Not one!

Men are not welcome in female spaces.

No

No idea why anyone believes anything on wikipedia. It's well known for easily alterable rubbish mostly.

One could legislate to change the law on GRCs so that they are conditional on surgery.

OP sets up thread.
Explains nothing and leaves.
This is just a goady thread to pit everyone against each other.

The ECHR has ruled that making sterilisation a condition for gender recognition is a breach of human rights

Because a man without a penis is a man without a penis. Gender isn't about a real or possible change. It's just appeasement.

True, but you did ask! And the Human Rights Act leaves it open to the UK to legislate contrary to the European Convention - the Rwanda Act earlier this year did that explicitly.

@Francine83 you disappeared. What exactly are you asking with this: But does anyone ever feel that they went a bit far with some of these ideas?
Who are they?
What's a bit far?
What ideas?

^

Good chat @Francine83

🤣🤣🤣

I am pretty solid in the belief that humane people do not make mentally unwell people cut their bits off as the price of getting what they dearly want (entry to women's spaces). Some males are so very steeped in the gender madness that they would be forming an orderly line in front of the surgeons in an instant. Nobody sane wants that.

And how would women know they have a GRC / lack of bits?

And they would still be men.