Does anyone feel like they have gone too far with gender critical?

[Francine83]

I have been really interested in lots of the gender critical ideas and have read a lot. I deeply share a lot of the very real feminist concerns. But does anyone ever feel that they went a bit far with some of these ideas? I know a lot of us have been exploring these ideas for a while now and I'm interested to hear how things have evolved for people. I would really welcome a reasonable and genuine chat about this.

This is why I was, and remain, a radical feminist rather than simply GC. RF keeps us grounded in the objective and the critique from drifting into sheer prejudice.

For goodness sake OP, what's the point if starting this thread if you're now going to ghost it?

Give some examples of what you mean by 'taking things too far'.

And No.

Well, I would draw the line at saying that men and women who present as the opposite sex, or believe they are the opposite sex, should be executed, put in prison, denied basic human rights, simply because they choose to live this way. That is clearly going too far.

I believe that anyone should be able to dress how they want, as long as it doesn't offend public decency. But that is where it becomes subjective, is any man dressed in women's clothes offensive? I would say not necessarily, but a man in full drag, or dressed in fetish gear, including dressing as a small child,baby or animal? Yes I think that is offensive and should be unlawful, but some would think that is too far. Possibly it is, and I am wrong on this one.

I believe that no biological man should compete in women's sports, win prizes for things like 'woman of the year' use female public toilets and changing rooms, be housed in women's prisons, or be recorded as female in any official document. To me this is just common sense, but to some these are too far.

I don't think public money should be used for any gender reassignment surgery, ever. I think that gender affirmation as a treatment for gender dysphoria should be banned for people under the age of 25. I think that anyone who wants gender reassignment should have to pay, source and arrange it themselves, and not be entitled to any treatment arising from this treatment, such as infection treatment or ongoing HRT, on the NHS. I am aware that others will think this is an extreme view.

No. For me it's the really real material world VS individual fantasies. So, not sure how you can go too far with reality.

Nope. Most have not gone far enough.

Not a genuine OP IMHO. Sock puppet if anything.

No, and I am another who is interested to read what you mean by "a bit far".

Oh, yes. I feel when a man films a series called ‘life as a girl’, and giggles and wiggles his way around dropping hankies and pouting about lipstick, then yes. It’s gone too far, and I’m free to say that and call him a pillock.

I don't understand your question.

Are you suggesting that some gender stereotyping should be encouraged but not all? I'm intrigued which you think is good and which you don't, if so.

Or are you suggesting that the tone of some feminists forced to fight for bare minimum rights they thought their grandmothers had secured is too much/ wrong ?

If it's the latter, do you actually know what gender critical means? Because you're essentially scolding women for not conforming to the regressive gender stereotype that we ought to shut up / put up / put out. That our words are as hurtful to men as their violence is to women.

No, if anything I have become more gender critical as I have come to better understand the science.

Sounds a bit like the old 'women's rights have gone too far'. What does it mean to go too far??

Can humans change sex? The answer is no, never. If humans can't change sex then nothing else has to happen except to continuously point this out. If humans can't change sex then what the hell are we doing? There is no surgery or hormones that can change sex, there is no clothing that can change sex, there are no words that can change sex. If that's the case, single sex spaces and services should mean just that. Single sex.

Gender means nothing and when people conflate gender and sex that should also be pointed out. It's all a great big game of pretend and we should all stop playing.

I find it extremely difficult when close friends have trans and gender non-conforming children (4 so far and counting). I have known these children since they were born and all in their early 20s now. I don't want to lose the friendships with their Mums - but it's a delicate line I tread.

My own dc are 23 and 21. One of them will not tolerate discussions with me about the subject (she thinks I am a dinosaur), one of them is more switched on and a bit cynical about it all. Ironically he is M and younger and at university in Brighton. He doesn't understand what is wrong about being gay.

I guess this is another drop and plop.

Too far with general critical what? Your question is incomplete. @Francine83

Very much this. Being gender critical is pretty much being feminist.
It's all about believing that radical notion that women are people, instead of just helpmeets to men, sexual objects, costumes for men to cosplay as etc etc etc.
OP's post is pretty much the same as asking 'Has feminism gone too far?'
Big fat nope.

Maybe not as up for a chat as they said they were!

There is a risk of doubling down on things that aren't true
Eg insisting that they are using cat litter trays in school. Or that children are going to school in the morning and being given sex change surgery at school without their parents knowing. That's actually quite counter productive because if that's what people hear and they know it's nonsense they assume all the objections are nonsense. But that's not that comm on mumsnet
I don't think you can go too far with the truth, so sticking to what is truthful is the best bet.

I don’t think we’ve gone far enough tbh

NRTFT but, Since when has believing in biological reality, allowing teenagers to go through puberty, not sterilizing children, and allowing violent men in female prisons been seen as ' going too far'? Jesus, just a few short years ago, this would have been seen as utter insanity! How far we have fallen...

OP, I really don't think you are posting in good faith.

Yes.
But you won't see anyone admitting it here because you'll get torn to shreds.
I started off gender critical and have now rejected the whole idea of that. Because I think it causes harm and hatred.
The Imane Kalief thread recently was absolutely horrific. Really upsetting. Cannot believe people would dehumanise someone to that extent. People speculating over her genitalia etc foaming at the mouth about it. Someone raised as a woman in a very religious country who may or may not have a chromosomal disorder and be intersex. Some gender critical people want to be right more than they care about any actual people.

I'm well aware I'll get a tonne of abuse for saying this but I think it's an obsession that has taken over some people and they've lost all sense of decency.

There is a risk of doubling down on things that aren't true

That isn't a consequence of being critical of gender, though. That's being uncritical of what you're told.

Will Francine83 ever be back to tell us how to feminist properly?

That's a man you're talking about.

What exactly do you think is decent about a man punching women in the face and winning a gold medal for it? Which part of that whole saga makes you go "Ahh, the poor dear"?