"Boys' poor mental health stems from feminism."

[Whattheduckery]

Just been in a training session at my school and this is what the trainer has said. She followed with "because they don't have a club to be part of..."

It's made me so mad.

The trainer was a woman.

That's terrible!😳

What an idiot

What a load of rubbish.

Is that a dig at the Scouts from going mixed or something?

A training session? Who provided the material?

This is awful. Did you say anything?

JFC really? Did anyone challenge her? What a load of unevidenced nonsense. Was it an internal thing or someone paid from an outside source?

Internal training.
I think I will complain.
Training littered with opinions.
I have challenged it, but was met with silence.

@Whattheduckery please do, those ideas are just plain stupid. Good luck 🍀 🤞

I agree, it was extremely clumsily worded.

But, playing devil’s advocate here, I wouldn’t dismiss the thought behind it. I think often elevating girls is done at the boys’ expense. I used to be a teacher and I’ve seen it.

As a society we seem to have missed the ‘different but equal’ station and instead got off at the ‘everyone should behave like girls’ or ‘girls are great and boys not so much’ ones.

We shouldn’t have abandoned teaching young boys how to channel their energy and aggression (just a biological fact, testosterone surges in adolescence can be very challenging to cope with) to seeing any manifestation of masculinity as ‘toxic’. It’s not healthy, imho. Boys need their own spaces to spar, compete and learn how to be a man who can control their impulses (play fighting helps a lot) - they have their own unique experience growing up, just like girls have.

So, I might consider their argument if they elaborated but the wording was unfortunate.

If you remove feminism, why does she think that boys don’t have clubs to belong to?

I have two boys, now adults. They both have been involved with numerous clubs and still are 🤔🤔

That's almost as good as the female SENDCO telling the male teacher enquiring about bathroom usage (we did have a no toilet unless you have a pass policy to reduce truanting/vandalism etc) that "Yes, if a girl says she's on her period she can wait to go to bathroom until break / lunch and that it is not an emergency". Clearly never suffered with heavy periods or flooding etc.

Some women cause women more issues.

Although I do agree that there is value in single sexed groups for both adults and children to bond and be together. Intermingling does change the social dynamic for both good and bad.

Did she mean actual clubs, or something like a social group to identify with? I don't think I've ever seen a Feminist club at a school, or any kind of girls-only club in schools where there wasn't any alternative choice for boys to attend.

I have a boy at secondary school who has lots of clubs to choose from!

We shouldn’t have abandoned teaching young boys how to channel their energy and aggression (just a biological fact, testosterone surges in adolescence can be very challenging to cope with) to seeing any manifestation of masculinity as ‘toxic’.

It depends what you are calling masculinity though.

I fully agree that boys should be taught to channel their energy and aggression. If they need to (that’s not something I’ve felt was needed with my two).

Im curious as to what sign of masculinity is now seen as ‘toxic’ when it’s natural. Could you elaborate @pigletinthewoods ?

I would have asked her what, in her opinion, feminism is. She seems to believe it's elevating girls at the expense of boys.

You should have asked if boys not belonging to a club, is the reason behind the national emergency we have in violence against women. Ask what club would stop that.

Definitely make a complaint.

I agree, things have gotten weird. I was a feminist because I just wanted women to be able to walk safely down the street and an end to prostitution. Instead it’s turned into men are bad, prostitution is empowering and little girls only play with dolls because we force them to.

That was a silly and incorrect way of putting it (from her), but I sort of know what she means. Girls used to be made to feel inferior, now boys are, and clearly it's nonsense either way.

For example, I’ve seen male boxing described as toxic. Yes, it can be bloody but there are more rules in boxing than in many other sports. It teaches aggression and strength control as well as learning to both lose and win with dignity. It is also extremely physically tiring.

As someone said, if we had more boys boxing clubs in London, we’d have fewer stabbings.

Boys these days have nowhere to do what boys have done for centuries- play fight and learn to channel and control their aggression by interacting with male role models.

Too often a male only club is forced to admit women or girls the moment it’s established. Boys should have their own spaces, like girls have.

Just my opinion.

I agree. In the seventies we wanted domestic violence to be taken seriously and to get equal wage for equal work. I'm not sure anyone wanted to have to go out to work rather than look after their babies because they can't afford the mortgage/rent on just one wage, but here we are. Punishment for getting uppity, I expect.

This 💯. Exactly the same for me. I don’t recognise this movement anymore.

I don't think that boys en masse in schools are told that boxing is toxic and that's the cause of male violence. I'd like to see some kind of evidence for that, rather than opinion and anecdata. I also don't believe that boys are prevented from attending boxing clubs because some pesky girls and women have managed to access boxing clubs. Evidence for that claim would again be ideal.

The issues with male violence always seems to be blamed on women regardless.

I think the problem in schools is that in the main (big generalisation here I know) girls fit better into our education system - they are more willing to sit still and listen whereas boys need to be up and doing. If they are being made to fit a mould that goes against their very nature then, yes, mental health will be adversely impacted.

Ridiculous you must complain.

This is a tricky one... I think it's fantastic that there has been lots of movement in young women's work over the years, it has and continues to be so very needed and often it's in response to the patriarchal problems that manifest in society. However, I would also say that in my experience in community work, there is a lack of effective and targeted work done with boys and young men. I do think it's good for males and females to have their own safe spaces and I agree that a lot of male only spaces can become quite toxic so I think it's important that boys have access to that in a healthy way so they can address issues like mental health in a male dominated but safe place. However I also see that as fully fitting with feminism. We want more men in society who are managing their mental health and leaning effectively on other men to take the load off women/ do away with the expectations on women and girls to 'fix' men and to encourage males to take proper accountability for themselves. I think that since many youth groups have moved to become more inclusive of female participants (which is important) there are increasingly fewer spaces for boys to meet without girls present and sometimes that space is needed to do that type of work.

In certain settings girls have much better outcomes than boys. They tend to have better social skills earlier and can adapt to different situations with greater ease than most boys seem to be able to. When you think about how many boys grow up without positive male role models now it's worrying. So I think she has misspoken in how she's worded it, but I'm not sure she is entirely wrong.