"Boys' poor mental health stems from feminism."

[Whattheduckery]

Just been in a training session at my school and this is what the trainer has said. She followed with "because they don't have a club to be part of..."

It's made me so mad.

These feminist arguments only work it you remove all nuance and use the broadest generalisations. In real life they're just fantasy.

Why are you getting caught up in the minutiae?

We need to tackle male violence, at the moment, we can discuss how to lessen it in the UK.

Something is going very wrong with how men are socialised in this country and domestic violence is a crisis.

It doesn't matter if a man is brown, white or black, if they're violent, the result is the same. We have a problem with boys watching a lot of violent and degrading porn for example and sexual assault is a major problem in schools. Two women on average die a week at the hands of a partner or former partner.

I agree. First of all there are many types of feminism and secondly it's ridiculous to blame feminism for the behaviour of boys.

You are confused. First of all men can be lumped as a gender just as women can, full of diverse individuals.

Secondly, the question was how to tackle male violence and the answer was that those violent men need to step up. And men collectively need to step up and tackle the violent ones among them. Just as white police officers need to tackle the racist officers among their ranks.

How do men tackle Islamic extremism? With violence obviously. By sending troops to invade countries.

No - all men taking responsibility for the bad eggs among them is like all white cops taking responsibility for the racists cops among them. See?

The men complained even more about toxic masculinity being negative towards men. So some women said fix your own problems. So then men felt left out.

Probably because the expectation is fir women to sort out those ‘social’ issues.
Men are good at sorting out stuff when they feel it’s benefitting them or want to.
But toxic masculinity, despite actually been hurtful in many ways, is also pretty good to men.
And I think that where it’s hard.

Women changed rules because it benefitted them clearly. Yes they took in more responsibilities (eg with work) and in many cases, women are now expected to be equal and therefore to be treated as equals (I’m thinking for eg in case if divorce).
But the change men need to do re toxic positivity is harder because 1- that’s how they/society still define themselves and 2- the situation has a lot of advantages to them.

I understand that men need to step up and that's absolutely correct, but I also don't think this is solely the responsibility of men. I do think that women also have a role to play in making sure society is raising "good" men and safe men. So I think as women we also need to be treating the root of the problem which is male violence and working alongside men to do it. I used to work with young people affected by domestic violence, not all but some of the young men when entering relationships automatically started to mirror behaviours they'd witnessed from their dad/ mums partner. I think there's a distinction between when a child is displaying certain concerning behaviours because they are actually a victim and need urgent intervention, and someone who is an adult doing what they want because that suits them to do. Many young men I've worked with wouldn't necessarily have felt safe enough with a male worker to actually get the support they need. So I don't think it's enough to say its just up to men to create safe spaces for boys, I do think women need to be involved in that as well.

@Lavender14
1- it’s women fault fir not raising chikdren that are not ‘good men’ as adults…

2- I dint think anyone said it was an issue for women to work alongside men to tackle violence. But it would be nice if men were actually taking the initiative! And leading on that particular issue . Just like women have done re women rights, rape crisis etc etc… afterall they are telling us how hurtful it is for them. So why is it that we dint have a strong movement against violence or rape? Maybe because they dint actually see the issue

Were there examples, elaboration and evidence along with the claim or was it just speculation and opinion?

I'm not sure I agree (and I'm not being snarky).

I don't think you can tackle it without understanding the individual sociological elements. The end result is the same (dead women) but the prelude is anything but. Islamic honour killings committed in cold blood by extended family are leagues away from drunken 'crime of passion' style spousal murder/family annihilation and they all need different approaches.

I actually think that trying to defocus them into generic 'male violence' is doing more harm than good. The only purpose it serves is to make it easier to berate all men rather than the specific demographics perpetrating each type of crime, which is why the cynical side of me wonders whether some feminists do this on purpose (not meaning you specifically BTW).

I think it's an issue for society to tackle. Both the innocent men and the innocent women.

1- it’s women fault fir not raising chikdren that are not ‘good men’ as adults…

The last thing I heard, children had fathers. They have equal if not more responsibility to raise decent boys. You can't blame aggressive behaviour on upbringing, boys are influenced by society and what they see online.

. So why is it that we dint have a strong movement against violence or rape?

Because we live in a misogynist society that doesn't see women as human beings with rights. Many men feel entitled to women's bodies, look at the rise of the manosphere and influencers such as Tate. Their messages aren't new, they're just repackaged for a new audience.

Because we live in a misogynist society that doesn't see women as human beings with rights.

Sorry but this is bollocks.

Men are taught from a young age not to hit girls, yet female characters can wallop a man around the face in a film and people find it hilarious. It's seemingly most common in romcoms which are mainly watched by women. Imagine if a bloke slapped a woman hard around the face. Nobody would be laughing!

And all the social experiments where a man/woman attacks their partner. With the woman somebody always intervenes, whilst with the man people laugh and film it on their phones (exactly what happened IRL when my male friend was repeatedly assaulted by his ex on nights out - she was a violent drunk).

If men are taught not to hit women, how do you account for the two dead women a week and one in four women experiencing abuse? How do you account for the millions of sexual assaults and rapes?

How do you account for the manosphere, incels and angry men who not only want to take women hostage and rape them, but have murdered women? How do you account for Andrew Tate and others like him to talk of women as possessions with no agency?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

So you also extend this reasoning to all groups? For example also to the demographic to which the grooming gang members belong?

Or does this collective responsibility only works when convenient?

For the record, I reject the notion of collective responsibility altogether, it leads to racism, stereotypes and prejudice.

Islamic honour killings committed in cold blood by extended family are leagues away from drunken 'crime of passion' style spousal murder/family annihilation and they all need different approaches.

No they don’t. They’re both committed by psychopathic misogynists.

The demographic being men.

If men are taught not to hit women, how do you account for the two dead women a week.

Well, factually, more than 99.99% of men don't murder women.

I don't think you can really define a group by what a fraction of a percent of them do, otherwise we'd have to agree that women as a group are criminals/thieves/child abusers etc. Obv men murder people more than women do, but OTOH women commit the vast majority of child abuse.

You have to look at the numbers in context of the population. Two men murder women a week but around three million don't. It's no less horrific for those isolated cases but it's actually vanishing rare in comparison to the population size. Most people just can't really visualise quite how many people there are in this country.

'Not all men' is the incorrect phrase. It's 'hardly any men'.

Violence is hardwired into men. Without this dynamic the human race probably wouldn't have endured. That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

The days of fighting other tribes are long gone but we've barely changed in evolutionary terms and a tiny number of men manifest these violent tendencies, mostly against other men but much less commonly against women too.

Well factually speaking, you said it was bollocks that men hit women. Therefore instead of blustering, explain how come rates of violence against women is so high and why two women on average a week are killed by men. You know, since men don't hit women.

Explain the high levels of sexual assault and rape, since men don't hurt women and misogyny is bollocks.

Explain why incels hate women and have a dangerous mysoginist ideology.

2 women a week murdered by a partner or expartner is hardly uncommon is it?

Only a man would think the human race couldn’t have endured without violence. Violence has destroyed civilisations and could ultimately destroy the planet.

Domestic violence is not vanishingly rare. 1 in 4 women have experienced da, - 25% of the population.

Well factually speaking, you said it was bollocks that men hit women.

Did I? Any chance you could direct me to that quote?

Sorry but this is bollocks.

Men are taught from a young age not to hit girls, yet female characters can wallop a man around the face in a film and people find it hilarious. It's seemingly most common in romcoms which are mainly watched by women. Imagine if a bloke slapped a woman hard around the face. Nobody would be laughing!

Because in this comment I said it was bollocks that 'we live in a misogynist society that doesn't see women as human beings with rights'.