I'm asking Keir a question about women's rights on 5 live - how to phrase it?

[JanefromLondon1]

I want him not to be able to give me the flannel that we have to be kind to the woMen. I want assurances that we do t have to share our spaces. I want to not sound like the very nervous person that am I!

Any help appreciated?

All of this. It doesn't take too much imagination to realise that if 'Legal Women' are given the green light by the next government, how many misogynists, abusers, controlling men and MRAs will wander in (claiming to have a GRC) to supposedly single sex spaces just to goad and intimidate.

I just don't understand how we got here. How could anyone think it was a good idea to allow men to be included in the class "women", in any situtation at all? In every single situation, from toilets to sports to the Brits, when men are allowed to be grouped with women, it's to the detriment of women.

(I know about the same-sex marriage thing, but that's not an answer, they should just have gone for permitting same-sex marriage).

MNers might like to know he seems to have sent his biographer out to bat. As one of the last posts indicates, us belligerent tutting old hags got a small window in between the football and this bloke's takeaway

AMA with Tom Baldwin: author of "Keir Starmer: The Biography" - the Sunday Times bestselling biography of the Labour Leader

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/AMA/5107465-ama-with-tom-baldwin-author-of-keir-starmer-the-sunday-times-bestselling-biography-of-the-labour-leader

If you were a biscuit what biscuit would you be? category of questions only no doubt.

His takeaway has arrived now so he's logged off. Not a joke.

A limp biscuit!

Sorry @ResisterOfTwaddleRex you made that clear in your post!

Hahaha @NoWordForFluffy

Was this post always in Feminist Chat? Only just noticed, I never usually go in Feminist Chat so I'm surprised I saw it originally.

It was incredible @Ereshkigalangcleg!!

Wow, I feel so pleased that the potential Prime Minister puts such a high value on the opinions of everyday UK women that he sent unto us his biographer while there was a break in the footy.

Definitely worth reading the AMA. His biographer has got the art of twaddle perfected

I noticed that earlier and thought how did I end up on a thread in Chat?

@JanefromLondon1 did you post this thread in Chat or has it been moved from Sex and Gender?

Glad someone else noticed! I hope it ended up in Chat to protect Jane, and not for other nefarious reasons. Maybe I'm falling into conspiracy rabbit holes, because I feel like I'm being gaslighted everywhere. So I don't know if I'm being ridiculous thinking it was in Sex and Gender.

I've just remembered that I've got the autobiography of Starmer's old pupil master in which Starmer gets a brief mention. A gift from a well meaning random. But quite interesting and funny in parts.

However, I don't think I'll be reading Starmer's biography wot his mate wrote.

In Acknowledgements it probably says: with grateful thanks to The Light of Bengal Takeaway and Stonewall. Without their help and support this book wouldn't have been possible.

I'm fairly certain each Chapter will be about what he did when he was DPP. Yawn. Zzzz.

The original post was always in Feminist Chat. I linked it onto several relevant FWR threads and then one was started after the interview.

Sounded to me that Starmer wants to include some unhappy men (so, potentially, all men) in the 'single-sex' places for women.

All relevant words eg single-sex, biological woman, female will be redefined to mean anyone.

What is a Man? - should be frequently asked.

He's obfusticating in the hope of it sounding nicer than it is, but yes.

He will protect single sex spaces - because after all, where's the 'respect' and 'kindness' unless there's a proper women's space for men who identify as women to use?

But women must accept that they owe men respect and must subordinate themselves to those men coming in. Certificates are a bit of a salve to his conscience I think, but a woman's experience of being expected to undress or do intimate things in front of random males is unaffected by what's going on in the man's head or what documentation he owns.

And it does nothing for the women excluded altogether.

Which you'd think Labour might manage to care about, but apparently multi culturalism, religious tolerance, disability rights etc are like their feminism - yes, very important obvs as a nice veneer of performative virtue, but in practice supported only if they're fully enabling of men's freedoms and self expression.

A dreadful thing they are planning to do is remove the clauses in the new guidelines for schools (which are out for consultation at the moment) which say children should not be taught the concept that people may be born in the wrong body/gender identity.

Someone needs to devise a programme for tra brainwash-proofing children.

Don't you think Gen Alpha are starting to query it anyway? Once something becomes 'establishment' teenagers tend to reject it. My own sons mock the gender woo terminology mercilessly (maybe something to do with me telling them it's horseshit, but I take it as a hopeful sign.)

So do mine. They eye roll it as a load of nonsense. Dd said in class in this topic that people can do what they like but girls need single sex spaces and ALL the other girls agreed. Year 10.

My 15 year old granddaughter told me that she and her friends refused to let a “ trans boy” into their toilets . He complained , the girls were told to be kind but they still refused .

My 12 year old just laughs at it. I know of boys who are at an all boys school where one is trans (but despite claiming he’s a girl doesn’t want to leave this prestigious all boys school, so the boys refuse to play certain sports with the child citing rules about playing sports with opposite Gender. Also refuse to allow the child to share their toilets so has had to have a separate one.

Kids alway rebel against the older group to create a distinct identity. One group went down the trans route, The next have gone down the reality route.

Yes, interesting. When something becomes the dominant ideology - when the govt embraces it, and schools, and the BBC - teens will reject it. It's become an 'establishment' value and being young is about dissenting from and questioning those values. Hopefully! Though I do feel so sorry for any young person who has physically transitioned and been irreparably damaged by it - it's cruel, a medical scandal.

Going to be a headfuck for the bekiiiind teachers if children are rejecting all this. They'll have to accept these kids for their authentic selves, won't they?