Can I be a feminist and not be fully pro-choice until term?

[Moonfishstar]

As in to think there should be some restrictions on stopping a mother aborting their foetus very close to term if there is no reason other than the mother has decided not to proceed?

@DrSpartacular

There is no dismemberment of limbs FFS, this is the sort of crap spouted by anti-abortion campaigners

But if you believe a foetus is "merely" an appendage of a woman's body to do with a she chooses, what does it matter if it was dismembered? What's the issue? Serious question!

Yup, and dismemberment is not part of the process, contrary to that dishonest post that said it is.

@GrumpyPanda

That may be true but in Canada,

Abortion is subject to provincial healthcare regulatory rules and guidelines for physicians. No provinces offer abortion on request at 24 weeks and beyond, although there are exceptions for certain medical complications.

There are fewer than 2,000 abortions after 24 weeks each year in the UK, out of approx. 123,000. 98% are performed before 17 weeks.

In terms of campaigning around abortion, I would focus my energies on better access and better care for all women, not wringing my hands around women making heartbreaking, life-changing decisions about their pregnancy tbh.

No, it's a ridiculous question.

I have not used the phrase appendage, you are straw manning me.

“dismemberment of limbs” wow some of these replies here are complete lies and incredibly dangerous. Would love to know how many vile, misogynistic commenters on here have adopted babies with serious health conditions/ disabilities? Or, have simply experienced caring for someone with a life limiting condition or seen the conditions in some of the sheltered accommodation for those with them? Seeing as human life is so valuable!

You lose all credibility when you trot out lines such as your last here during a debate. I assumed you wanted a sensible and informed and interesting debate. Sadly it looks like you wanted an echo chamber to tell you how correct you are.

And yes, early as possible, late as necessary.

Can you point to ANY woman having aborted a foetus after waters have broken? If so, I'll happily have that conversation with you. But until then, you can take your hyperbolic anti-choice language elsewhere.

There is no place for it in a debate, about something so important and emotive.

Isn’t that what I said?

If you’re a feminist and pro-choice, it’s the only logically consistent position.

As I also said, other women’s choices are nothing to do with me.

They’re nothing to do with you, either.

@DrSpartacular

Yup, and dismemberment is not part of the process, contrary to that dishonest post that said it is.

But why are you so concerned with saying that it's not given your standpoint? If a 3rd trimester foetus is merely a collection of the woman's body, why does it matter if it's dismembered?

More straw manning.

Exactly this.

Why are women arguing about something that never happens (late term abortion for non medical reasons) but not discussing the absolutely more imperative and important conversation about supporting the children that do come into the world.

It does happen though. Its rare. It's very rare. But it does happen.

Why does my abortion have anything at all to do with you??

Because the "medical reasons" are not defined clearly in law. They are open to interpretation. So if a dr is willing to agree to a termination for cleft lip, or tailipies, or a missing limb, at 34 weeks of pregnancy, it does happen.

@DrSpartacular

I have not used the phrase appendage, you are straw manning me.

Given that appendage means "an adjunct to something larger or more important", what is the foetus if not an appendage? It feels like you're deflecting the question because you know you can't answer it.

If you were unequivocally pro-choice, you'd be ok with a foetus being dismembered if that was the woman's choice to do so.

You may reply "but no woman would ever do this" but who are you to presume what choices a woman may make?

It's such a difficult subject and so easy to have an opinion when you are not in the difficult situation of making a choice yourself.

…and?

You think someone who does it, is going to bring a child (who becomes an adult) into the world who’s loved and cared for, who has their emotional needs met?

And more straw manning.

@DrSpartacular

If you believe a woman has an absolute and inviolable right to do whatever she wants to her body under any and all circumstances, then you do believe a woman has the right to dismember her foetus in the womb, unless you tell me you don't.

The thing is, most people realise that absolutist positions are crazy when taken to their logical extremes, but you and a few others don't seem to accept that, you're so down the rabbit hole!

@DrSpartacular

Ok, I'll phrase it another way, do you believe that a woman has the absolute right to choose to do whatever she wishes with her body without any restrictions whatsoever?

What’s the point of this debate?

Nobody ever changes their mind.

That’s why it’s imperative to let individuals have the right to make the choice that’s best for them.

Why do YOU get to be Lord and Master, and force what you think onto other people?

How can anyone ever defend this position, when they know full well they’d hate to be forced to abide by other people’s personal preferences….?

I believe that a woman's medical decisions are between her and her doctor.

As I have already said.

And I believe that lies about what happens during abortions can be especially, though not exclusively, harmful to women who terminate wanted pregnancies, and that even though that is their choice, it is a choice made under often harrowing circumstances. I believe that the procedure should be carried out with dignity and respect. As all medical procedures should.

I disagree. It IS a feminist issue because late-term abortions are vanishingly rare and only happen for exceedingly serious medical reasons. What OP is constructing here is a fake scenario that has been bandied about for years by extreme right-wing, anti-feminist actors trying to come up with a wedge issue. Hence also the misleading term "late term abortion" which would literally mean an abortion after the due date, and hence an oxymoron.

I am assuming you mean without medical intervention?

I agree. Even if it was killed, the only way to get it out would be birth or c-section, so do that without killing it and give it up for adoption. No need to kill it.

I always thought you had to have an abortion by 12 weeks, and medical reason abortion was allowed up to 5 months (uk), but only if Dr's said it was needed.