Can I be a feminist and not be fully pro-choice until term?

[Moonfishstar]

As in to think there should be some restrictions on stopping a mother aborting their foetus very close to term if there is no reason other than the mother has decided not to proceed?

It seems there is quite a split within feminism!...

I don't get the mental gymnastics involved with saying "it's not an issue because women almost never do this", and "it's essential that women should nonetheless have the right to do this if they choose."

Why push for a right that you think no one would ever, ever use... and then denounce people as anti-feminist for not supporting a right that you're saying no woman would ever want!

It's like saying beheading your kids shouldn't be illegal because it's not an issue as no one ever does it.

@DrSpartacular

As early as possible, as late as necessary, for any or no reason.

That phrase is trite bullshit... So you're seriously ok with a woman having an abortion once her waters have broken because she fancies it.

Yes, I appreciate that a vanishingly small number of women would do this, but similarly, a vanishingly small (probably even more vanishingly smaller!) number of women behead their kids! Are you ok with that being allowed because "no one would ever do this in practice"?

I think it's none of my business. It's between her and her doctors.

@HemlockSoup

And I'm the hyperbolic one?

I was merely demonstrating how ridiculous your comment was, especially as late term abortion usually does require the woman to "give birth".

aw, you were indulging in some hyperbole.

that's okay.

@DrSpartacular

I think it's none of my business. It's between her and her doctors.

So as long as her doctors are ok with her aborting once her waters have broken you're ok with that?

Do you know how much abuse has gone on in society because people have said "if it's behind closed doors, it's none of my business"?

@HemlockSoup

I think it's none of my business. It's between her and her doctors.

I suppose I was - at least I can admit it! 😂

So because she's pissed off her partners cheated/left her?
She's been made redundant?
She hates the dad and wants to really hurt him?
All OK reasons?

Yes. I think the current rules in the UK are about right. If there is danger to the mother's mental or physical health or if the baby has severe disabilities etc and/or no prospect of survival then that is different. I do not believe that a woman's right to bodily autonomy trumps the right to life of a healthy baby that would/ could survive outside the womb.

In reality I think this is something that is extremely unlikely to be requested except very rarely, especially given that the woman would need to essentially give birth anyway and the only difference is whether it's to a dead or living baby. But on principle, I am totally against this line of argument and anyone who says that makes me less of a feminist can frankly do one.

Do you think a woman considering terminating a pregnancy for those reasons is in a good place to become a mother at that time? That perhaps in those situations choosing to birth and raise a baby - and the decades of responsibility that follow - is maybe not the most sensible option, or best for her own well-being?

I don't think I've ever seen an ideology that's so unyieldingly absolutist! Seriously, even the most fundamentalist of Christians are rarely so dogmatic!

Ok, well if this is what a feminist is, I'm out.

There's a reason that no country has anything close to completely unfettered abortion to term, and it's not the patriarchy ffs! It's women who understand that there needs to be at least a smidgeon of nuance regarding this!

The number of weeks agreed by the medical profession at which a foetus can survive outside the womb and has a better than not chance of avoiding lifelong disabilities due to premature delivery.

I agree with this too. If the foetus is at a stage that it could live but the mother no longer wants to be pregnant then I agree she should be enabled to be induced. As she would need to do anyway as part of the abortion.

I really just can't get behind killing what is at that point essentially an actual baby, albeit one that is still in its mother's womb.

@DrSpartacular

Do you think a woman considering terminating a pregnancy for those reasons is in a good place to become a mother at that time? That perhaps in those situations choosing to birth and raise a baby - and the decades of responsibility that follow - is maybe not the most sensible option, or best for her own well-being?

So you genuinely believe that a 40 week abortion would be ok in those circumstances! Bloody hell... thankfully the vast majority of women disagree!

If you are aborting a baby at a viable gestation then it's birth regardless. It's either a live birth or it's not, but it's birth.

But as long as the 'mother' gets what she wants alls ok?

As a feminist, I believe that a woman can be of the opinion that abortion is wrong, just like she can be of the opinion that children shouldn’t be conceived outside of marriage.
In other words, women are entitled to their own opinions. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with their opinions.

@DrSpartacular no-one is suggesting women should be forced to raise babies that they don't wish to keep.

@IncompleteSenten

It's a tactic often used by anti choice activists trying to get people to think this is something that would be happening if we didn't restrict women's choices.

It really isn't. It's a view widely held by women who fully support current abortion laws!

The uk law has restrictions that seem reasonable and most feminists seem happy with the balance, although i am sure some would like tighter restrictions and others none. There is not one feminist view.

A quick read suggest euthanasia of newborns is acceptable in the netherlands in very specific circumstances!

I hold the same view as you and consider myself a feminist.

I think it should be difficult to get a late term abortion and there needs to be a damn good medical reason why. But I would accept some psychological reasons in exceptional cases.
I've only been aware of 2 cases in real life of late abortions and both were for devastating medical reasons. The idea that women are just choosing to wait and then changing their mind in late pregnancy just cos they no longer want a baby just isn't the case.

Yes it doesn’t make sense does it? It’s like when people say that not providing abortion at any gestation means the state is ‘forcing women to be pregnant’. They’re already pregnant, the state had no involvement in that whatsoever.

The question is more, if a woman is pregnant, until what gestation does she have the right to insist the state intervene to end that pregnancy. Which is quite a different thing.

I’ve had a termination myself, at 7 weeks though, so I’m not anti.

But as long as the 'mother' gets what she wants alls ok?

Indeed, this type of unyielding absolutist extreme pro-choice position is to feminism, what Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge were to socialism!

Are people actually reading the OPs original post?? She asked about abortion close to term. That's not legal. It's an entirely different question to abortion at an early stage where the baby cannot survive outside of the womb. Aborting a full term baby is abhorrent but I don't think it's really a feminist issue by that point. Effectively the only way to do it would be to somehow kill the child inside the womb and then induce the mother to labour or use surgery to remove it. Surely no one is arguing that's a feminist position to support. It feels disgusting to even type.

When I was pregnant, there was a chance that my baby could have had heart problems or trisomy 3.

I asked about termination options in the event of a diagnosis of incompatibility with life and the midwife said to me that you can terminate any time up to term, for health reasons.

For. Health. Reasons.

So a woman needing a termination is doing it for exactly those reasons. Health.

And that is not up for debate I'm afraid.

(My baby was healthy and is doing great)