Your silence is deafening!

[Umyisraelchai]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/11/israeli-women-and-girls-have-suffered-horrific-sexual-violence-from-hamas-where-is-the-outrage?CMP=share_btn_link
Your silence is deafening!

The hideous attack has been forgotten in the horror that followed.

While Hammas nests in the UN and aid agencies. and shelters behind civilians, it’s extremely hard to be strategic.

But the depravity of that original attack needs to be remembered.

Doesn't fit my view = propaganda. Riiiiight.

Umyisraelchai, there have been threads about this, but whataboutery and propaganda claims always seem to be more important when it's Israelis who are subjected to appalling assaults.

It's all horrific. But there's a scale issue here that most people can't ignore.

22,185 Palestinians have now been killed in Gaza since October 7

That's like murdering the whole of Truro in Cornwall. Unimaginable.

Aren't those figures released by Hamas director of health or something like that?
Are you actually going to believe a word Hamas says?
Are they counting the civilians or the militants?
When there was actual footage of Gaza civilians joining in with the massacre
Reports of Gaza civilians holding hostages in their own homes.
Hamas released footage of their fighters beheading civilians and burning them alive.
Sorry but I have no sympathy

@MNHQ Why do you delete these statements? People need to see them, otherwise they claim anti-Semitism doesn't exist because they've never seen any.

Quite.

Women are used as pawns in the 'larger' and 'more important' fights. From the New Year attacks in Cologne to this. And every conflict in history. Women are raped and the 'bigger' issue is land or race or ethnicity or money or oil or whatever.

The dead women and children in Gaza are victims too. They didn't rape and sexually assault anyone. But men have decided they need to die, so they die.

It's almost always the case, from Congo to Israel, that women are punished by rape or death as surrogates for the men around them. Hamas hate Israel, rape the women. Israel hate Hamas, kill the women.

I reported because I felt the accusation against MN as ‘dripping in propaganda’ was unfair.
I feel any post highlighting the barbarism of those initial attacks deserves to stand unchallenged.

are you fucking kidding me. Israel have flattened hospitals and killed countless innocents in their occupation and now are literally commiting genocide. Practically everything is Hamas according to israel. Your agenda is sickening. I dont know how anyone in their right mind is still trying to push this point that what is going on is in anyway proportionate, let alone pushing the pov that its somehow more feminist view. Rape is a hideous war tactic that men commit on any side of any war.

It's pretty normal for Israel to kill 10x the number of Palestinians compared to Israelis killed in any attack. That's how it's always been. It's because Hamas hide among civilian targets and use them as human shields, but it's also because Israel is a superior military power with not a lot of fucks given.

If you really think that the number of dead in Gaza given is purely a lie perpetrated by Hamas, you're very naive. Both sides are criminal here. Would I like to see Hamas eradicated root and branch? Hell, yes. They're the worst of Islamic terrorism. Would I like to see the current Israeli government replaced with the kind of more moderate government we have seen in the past? Hell, yes. The current lot are trying to allow politicians to overrule the judiciary in the same way as was done in Poland, in the same way that our government would like to do here. And such things never turn out well for women.

Who told you we kill women now?

Who is 'we'?

Yes everyone very comfortable relying on Hamas stats, which suggest zero Hamas officials have been killed, they’re ALL innocent babies apparently.

did you read the transcripts from the Hamas men calling their families to brag about how many Jews they’d killed? They were so proud and their families congratulated them. I think it’s become very difficult to differentiate who is Hamas and who isn’t - look at unrwa for example! UNRWA teachers were reported to be hiding hostages in their homes, as well as famously removing the Holocaust from their curriculum (and of course actually taking part in the rape and murder themselves !!)

My thoughts exactly

It is all a horrific situation. My heart breaks thinking about the thousands, yes thousands of INNOCENT Palestinians killed and still being killed daily. The thousands of Palestinians with no home, no medicine, children living in tents or on the street, no food and starvation. How is this proportionate? Any human that can look another in the eye and have not an once of basic compassion for the innocent Palestinian people are ...well I cannot even find a word to describe what I think. This is genocide.

Here's the thing. I ALSO have the same amount of compassion for the innocent civilians killed, raped and attacked on October 7th by those Hamas bastards. I still think and pray for the innocent civilians still being held in Gaza. I cannot imagine what they are going through. It must be horrific for them and their loved ones.

So, we can have compassion for innocent people on both sides, who did not ask to be involved in this situation.

Is that so hard to comprehend?

Yes TerryPratchett - one thing that unites the perpetrators is that they are male. This is male violence.

The World was shocked and appalled by this. Genuinely.

Unfortunately, all we've witnessed since is Israeli troupes retaliating against civilians.

Nobody supports Hamas. Every is disgusted by Hamas. Everyone saw their revolting, heinous crimes against your people.

We are sickened, but that doesn't mean we can turn the other cheek to the decimation of Gaza.

Unfortunately, tens of thousands of innocent Palestinian lives will pay for what Hamas did.

Palestine is not Hamas.

Thanks, OP. An eloquent letter.

If Israel killed the exact same number of Palestinian babies and the exact same number of women etc that Hamas killed on October 7 would that be OK? My gut feeling is no because "you killed X of "our" babies so I can kill X of "yours"" or "you raped/killed Y of our women so we can rape/kill Y of yours" is just a horrible view of the world. War is sometimes necessary (and almost always involves innocent loss of life) but collective punishment is a war crime in itself. So why is Israel's (possible disproportional) response relevant when discussing the utter horror of October 7.

What I'm trying to say is, in some ways, it feels irrelevant to bring up Israeli actions in Gaza when people are talking about what Hamas did. Just as its not right to ask someone who has lost relatives in Gaza "but do you condemn Hamas". But everytime people try to talk about how awful what happened On October 7 was it gets derailed by discussion about what Israel is doing now as if thats somehow retrospective justification for brutal rapes of young women, many of whom were hippy types at a music festival.

Seems very much like #me too unless you’re a Jew

Women being gang raped and mutilated is never excusable

Every single time someone wants to talk about violence against women/child victims of grooming gangs/rape someone always pops up to give an example of how men are more likely to commit suicide. Or how things are so much worse in Afghanistan/wherever. Why? Why does the suffering of another group of people lesson the suffering of the group being discussed. It always feel like an attempt to derail the conversation. Its really disappointing to see women doing it.

Also, frankly, fuck the cowardly little worms who went on a rampage against unarmed women/men/children, committed the most horrific crimes including gang rape and then went back to hide in tunnels leaving the civilians (including many women and children who regardless of their beliefs had done NO gang rapes or murder) to suffer the resulting fury of Israel with nowhere safe to shelter or supplies. I'm tempted to say "I hope it was worth it" but unfortunately for some of them I bet it was (who cares about dead Palestinian children when you had a fun time before).

And none of that gives Israel justification to commit war crimes but that should be a separate discussion.

But everytime people try to talk about how awful what happened On October 7 was it gets derailed by discussion about what Israel is doing now as if thats somehow retrospective justification for brutal rapes of young women, many of whom were hippy types at a music festival.

And what none of those derailers can ever say is what they would consider to be an appropriate and proportionate response if it was their country, their people, their friends, their co-religionists, their tourists, their foreign worker colleagues that had been attacked, murdered, raped and taken hostage.

“And none of that gives Israel justification to commit war crimes..” So while Israel strives in the worst possible hand to hand combat to eliminate a savage killing machine, Hamas achieves the very reaction you’ve expressed above- it can massacre at will, imbed itself within its own people for whom it has zero regard, knowing Israel will be condemned whatever!

I am certain that Hamas's objective for the attack - and Iran's - was nothing to do with Palestinian autonomy, and everything to do with triggering exactly what Israel is now doing. Hamas does not care for Palestinian well-being. Hamas cares for derailing any peaceful initiatives between Israel and Muslim countries, and alienating Israel from Western allies.