We are going to end up with a Conservative government AGAIN at this rate, is that ok with everyone?

[MentholLoad]

following a thread on AIBU I think about who would vote Tories again.....the main (only?) reason people are citing for voting Tories is the GC issue. Women totally abandoning social politics over a singular issue. declaring nothing else matters, if Labour can't get this right then, they won't vote for them

I can't work out if these people were Conservative voter's anyway/actually do agree that Conservative policy and practice generally, is in our best interests compared with Labour

OR they are prioritising GC issues above and at the exclusion of all else? because alot more women will have a lot more issues, if we have yet another round of Conservative Government

And they are ignoring that Labour (finally!) defined women as adult human female

AND ignoring that this whole debacle has happened under the Tories 🤷🏼‍♀️

So you’re against legal migration because of lower wages and families? Certainly a switch from legal migration adds net economic benefit as I often see on here. In any case numbers will go down, importantly we can control it. Unlike irregular migration.

A quick google more recent to your link is top result.

It is important that we do not incentivise people smuggling gangs to target particular groups or those with certain characteristics. Therefore families, and children who come to the UK illegally will not be exempt from detention and removal under this bill.20 Jul 2023

It will deter, beyond that well we’ll see where it goes. I can more comfortably talk about a year or two ahead than more than that. Maybe we’ll see extra force. It’ll come down to what citizens demand.

I don't support migration of 600k per year, thats utterly ridiculous, thats 2 Southamptons every year!!!

Who things thats a good idea? its fucking madness!!! but under a Tory Govt, this is exactly whats happening - its not as if its even reducing labour shortages in Care Construction etc as so many are family members.

One thing with EU migration is that people coming did and could easily go back, this is not so with migration from SE Asia Africa etc, will never return, visa or no visa.

It’ll go down.

It’s the uncontrolled mass displacement we need to prepare for.

It’s also what’s going to strain all the post War systems on people movement

I know it’s hard to envisage but think ahead.

One thing I’ve learnt from Lampedusa is at the moment you are overwhelmed other countries will stay say no. Even if you are within the EU

How do you square your feelings on migration with prominent Conservatives warning about the birth rate and calling on women to have more babies? (Cates, Rees Mogg, Jenrick etc)

Either we are full or we aren't. And if we aren't, surely it's better to support desperate people now rather than encourage more babies and exacerbate global population growth at a time of extreme environmental pressure?

I truly can't explain the contradiction in positions than anything other than British people = good, everyone else = bad. Which is over simplistic and inhuman to me.

Probably true so please could you or TooBig explain to me what is meant by "victimhood" because I don't understand.

If you are genuinely GC I'm not sure they really want you.

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-labour-party-and-gender-critical-women/

Well not really. I can't think of a single benefit to having a Conservative government so its a mulititude of issues not one . So I definitely do not want the Tory's in again. My vote would either go to green or Labour which would have the most chance of winning against the Tory candidate and I will vote tactically at the yine for whichever is most likely

Who cares if they really “want you”? You can only make a difference if you join and make noises from the inside. I have had the exact same conversation with a friend who sends her kids to private school. Join and speak up. How else will we get rid of Brexiteers and Momentum long term? Please, someone enlighten me? Starmer is moderate. You just have to go to Trafalgar Square regularly to watch all the hard left campaigning against their own leader. Moderate Tories need not be scared of Starmer.

I was wondering how you square your stated GC views with a party happy to call you a rights hoarding dinosaur, and no one is talking about it when asked about GC issues

On babies, it’s not an issue I feel strongly on. My overall view is AI will replace jobs and mitigate the need for workers

Which is good as the never ending pyramid is not helping climate issues

David Lammy is not "the party" and he wasn't referring to all GC feminists, so I didn't/don't take it personally.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/labourlist.org/2021/09/anti-trans-members-are-dinosaurs-who-want-to-hoard-rights-says-lammy/%3famp

If the party reverts to where they were under Corbyn and kicks women out for being GC I will leave. But Starmer has made it clear that isn't his parties stance. Wes Streeting is very prominent and he has publicly apologised to Rosie Duffield.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/wes-streeting-apologises-to-labour-mp-rosie-duffield-who-felt-ostracised-due-to-gender-views

Lisa Nandy and Stella Creasy have been demoted.

Exactly. Great post.

One could argue that 600k per year (and its going UP!) is uncontrolled? given that a work/student visa is given to 1 worker/student, who then says he/she will bring in partner and x number of children too, sounds uncontrolled to me.

How can we prepare for mass movements of people?

Just how would you stop people crossing the Med and then move onto the Channel?

@AdamRyan David Lammy is not "the party" and he wasn't referring to all GC feminists, so I didn't/don't take it personally.

Oh good. You can tell us who he WAS talking about, then. And how you got this inside knowledge.

Equally, how do you know who was talking about? where did you get your inside knowledge from?

Atm we have a Conservative Govt that has so badly run the justice system that men convicted of violet crime & rape will not go to prison, thats very reassuring.

Meanwhile lets focus on words spoken by an opposition politician, who may never get into Govt, far more important.

Uncontrolled is the method by which people enter

You can control work visas by not allocating them

You cannot control irregular migration. Well unless you put in deterrence. Which some countries have managed to do.

I’m probably less averse due to my background because I can’t see the electorate just accepts more control, it becomes bi-partisan and no party attempts to overturn it. People see the upside as greater security and don’t want to go back to the more chaotic irregular entry

On all this though, it reminds me of people realising zero Covid wasn’t possible. It’s the same kind of realisation. Migration will change, because climate is changing. I don’t know when the penny will drop on how the world will change (and already is changing). I suppose a few more of these threads to come before it does.

As for pp on Max Hastings, not sure why his name is reappearing but even the old guard will have to come to terms with a changing migration pattern. Some are firmly entrenched in post war systems, but they’ll creak as much as anyone on seeing the realities.

I’m not actually sure what’s driving people’s lack of acceptance of the change incoming at this point

@Howpo Equally, how do you know who was talking about? where did you get your inside knowledge from?

You may be unaware of the history of that remark from David Lammy & how it was heard & taken up by so many GC women, & is still immortalised today in dinosaurs of all kinds.

The quoted poster is going against the grain & it's the first time I've seen anyone do this. The poster earlier claimed to have joined the Labour Party yesterday, which makes inside knowledge of David Lammy's thoughts even less likely, I would have thought.

I'd just like to see how this particular circle gets squared. I can think of several possible explanations.

Meanwhile lets focus on words spoken by an opposition politician, who may never get into Govt, far more important

It is definitely important to look at what an opposition party says, does, believes. Their job is to hold the government to account, and to show us how things would be different if they were on the opposite side of the despatch box.

Lammy caused serious offence to women. If he had said the same thing but about disabled people "hoarding their blue badges", there would rightly have been a national outcry. It's THAT offensive.

Meanwhile lets focus on words spoken by an opposition politician, who may never get into Govt, far more important.

Happy that a party who makes those statements doesn’t get in, but given that many are claiming it’s a done deal on getting in (still debatable imo) I’d say it’s important to listen to their views.

I think the point of Brexit was migration was supposed to be better controlled. You could. You could prevent large scale migration from developing countries which currently occurs. No issue. Would affect UK business, absolutely.

As for Hastings, the point he made was a good one. Sunak is a loser, and that Hastings and the kind of background he represents aren't going to vote Conservative. That's a disaster and I think what is left after the next election will be a collection of libertarian, very diverse MPs, who really aren't conservative by are catering to GB News.

What happens to the rather old school Tories anyone's guess. But I think the actual vote will collapse.

I’ve equally seen articles on Starmer being weak so we’ll see.

I don’t really care what Max Hastings thinks tbh not sure why people are clamouring to hear his views

I guess if you really want Labour to win you’ll jump on anything like that

Still dont get how you want controls on immigration yet are happy to see 600k plus come here? the uncontrolled part is the family members who come here.

UK is adding people to the work & student visa schemes, its going up.

Also, yet to see how we prepare, Australia didn't deter, it forcibly removed people as or before they landed, the only country to do so.

Labour are in opposition, Lammy isn't doing particularly well in his brief, should Labour get in, they'll be a reshuffle, i suspect like Nandy, he'll go to the back benches.

Skilled migration doesn’t bother me as much as the changes that will impact everyone globally.

Numbers go up and down, they’ll likely reduce. I’m fine with it reducing but I’m not as antagonised by visas as others

Aus is pretty happy with what they’re doing, so much so no party will touch it.

We are behind Aus and averse, maybe people will realise what’s happening globally, maybe not given the amount of rebuttals that keep coming up.

I don’t really see what people are clinging to and why, surely knowing change will happen you want to be ready

Yet to see a successful barrister who is weak & he was good at his job or he wouldn't have made DPP.

Being "weak" is an easy slur to throw around, so i doubt Sunak is weak, he just doesn't seem to care very much, bit like Johnson, keen to be PM but not much idea what to do, once there.

I still don't understand how you would deter 10s of 1000s of migrants crossing the Channel, with a scheme that max will take 1000 migrants.

Australia sent everyone to remote Islands, not just 1 or 2% & the economies from where the majority came from have improved eg Vietnam.