We are going to end up with a Conservative government AGAIN at this rate, is that ok with everyone?

[MentholLoad]

following a thread on AIBU I think about who would vote Tories again.....the main (only?) reason people are citing for voting Tories is the GC issue. Women totally abandoning social politics over a singular issue. declaring nothing else matters, if Labour can't get this right then, they won't vote for them

I can't work out if these people were Conservative voter's anyway/actually do agree that Conservative policy and practice generally, is in our best interests compared with Labour

OR they are prioritising GC issues above and at the exclusion of all else? because alot more women will have a lot more issues, if we have yet another round of Conservative Government

And they are ignoring that Labour (finally!) defined women as adult human female

AND ignoring that this whole debacle has happened under the Tories 🤷🏼‍♀️

Of course they will. What nonsense

helping them in their own countries is one way to reduce migration (obv doesn't work for war zones) but we could be doing more to try and stop conflict.

This is not realistic. Look at the news. If people don’t appreciate their safety here yet, they will soon.

The months part is irrelevant btw the start of the journey is a French beach

The journey from France is the last leg of a much longer journey. They basically transit France.
This is why the policy is ridiculous, its presented as if they will just stop in France, which of course they won't if they have already successfully crossed the med and large parts of Europe.

Someone just pointed out the phones used to contact RNLI.

News on Rwanda will spread

In fact they already know about potential changes now

This idea that people are not aware isn’t realistic

People have access and talk all the time on which countries are easier or not

What I like about this chat is that it's exposing that FWR is in fact full of posters pushing Conservative policy alongside "what is a woman".

I hope it will be illuminating for lurkers that people have an agenda.

I'm GC but don't want a country that spaffs it's limited money on performative cruelty to asylum seekers. I hope lots of other GC feminists feel the same.

I think the problem is that people are venting their political views online rather than in real life. In real life, they are not doing anything about it.

So ask yourselves this, how many hours have you wasted on Mumsnet ranting about Tories or Labour. How many emails have you sent to your MP instead? Do you show up locally if you feel strongly? And if not, why not? Is it about anonymity? Is there something about being politically involved properly speaking that scares you? Are you kidding yourselves that being a keyboard warrior means it will have a real impact? Does it? Or does it not?

I knew a poster would go for that line eventually.

And could have guessed it would be the poster that did.

Right now stopping asylum seekers is seen as wrong, particularly by Labour mners

As we see extra pressures it will switch. People will start to consider safety more and that of their dc

We’re not there yet, but anyone who looks outside a parochial U.K. centric view will see the shift is already happening.

Actually I think mn has been part of grassroots change. There’s a reason TRAs attack here and hold banners up

So I’m grateful to all FWR who do post

I also do write and turn up as others do, if people read posts they’ll see that

Speak for yourself I bore everyone's ears off irl as well as on here. Joined Labour yesterday because I loved their conference priorities (especially the ones to protect women).

I hope most people are happy to take asylum seekers - we have a long history of supporting those fleeing persecution that we are rightfully proud of.

Illegal migrants is different, I agree with the intent to reduce those numbers but Rwanda is not going to do thar. Its a distraction from the fact the Conservatives broke our border protection by pursuing a hard brexit and refusing to come to a financial arrangement with France for joint policing of the border.

As usual, the Conservatives created this problem for themselves and now chickens are coming home to roost.

That's a common pattern in all the "problems" the conservatives are highlighting. They caused them.

We do pay the French to police their border and they use a huge array of technology and surveillance to do so

As the French spokesperson relayed on R4 you would be deluded to think they can stop everyone. They do stop over half though

Brexit is irrelevant to that, if you looked at Med figures you’d see the direction of travel for numbers. It’s a global issue.

People need to look at worldwide trends, they also need to project forward to understand where it is headed.

Many won’t feel security is a priority quite yet, it will change though.

“Many won’t feel security is a priority quite yet, it will change though.”

What do you mean by this? Infiltration by terrorists? Or big families with different values?!

Obviously, with global warming comes more and more illegal migration. However, given demographics we need some migration. We need young workers and families. And who is going to decide who is allowed in and who is not?
And yes I agree, we need to protect our own existing poor as well who are not getting enough out of public services, as is and housing is a huge problem.

However, it is the same as the trans issue. I feel entirely conflicted. Protect the minority that has suffered and been excluded/marginalised but also protect women, especially poorer and abused women and women in prisons.
It is the same with Israel. I do not feel I can have an opinion either way. And quite frankly I think a lot of people feel just like me. How about some honesty that there is no answer to complex problems. Same with private schools why such an extreme policy? Basically trying to get some voters via hate policies. And showing up THE OTHER PARTY’S. The hate and negativity puts people off politics though. They look the other way.

At least we won't have to worry about male rapists being placed in women's jails any more. The Tories have found a solution... they just won't send rapists to jail at all. Bravo!

Fellow moderates, let’s not be too late to the party.I consider myself pretty much the middle of the middle when it comes to politics. I’m way left of hard right and way right of hard left. I haven’t always voted the same way and I’ve never considered becoming a member of a political party

I heard John Major same similar in a political interview - he described old style conservative party at one point as biggest marriage bureau ever to exist - but pointed out Labour and other parties have same issue - board support for political parties has declined and people joining are more at the political extremes which then puts more moderates off joining.

He didn't blame moderates for not joining though. I've seen posts from women over years on FWR who did the leafleting and doorstep knocking feeling attacked and unwanted and leaving parties.

Look at the response from France to Italy with the recent overwhelming of Lampedusa, it was a no we cannot take more.

There may be a variety of reasons for that no.

It will just be that countries’ priorities will switch to avoid being overwhelmed, and the electorate will demand it. Atm it’s look a poster has those views as in pp, etc. I don’t give it long for things to swing, UK is actually quite open and it will strain a lot of post war set up but I can’t see climate hanging around to allow that to stay.

The EU is quite open too (not all but Germany is) and we’re seeing change there already.

On needing people, worker requirements will drop as AI progresses. It may overshoot but we’re starting to see the beginning of job replacement

All I would like is for people to look at global trends and consider where we are heading.

I agree with the concept though that the aim has to be to get the nutcases out of Parliament at both ends. So if you have a nutcase MP who is too left or too right, that is where the effort should be going - get them out! Forget whether they are blue or red.

following a thread on AIBU I think about who would vote Tories again.....the main (only?) reason people are citing for voting Tories is the GC issue.

Look, this is Mumsnet. It's not representative of the UK as a whole because an unusually large number of strongly GC women hang out here (as it's one of the few places that has allowed discussion of the issue without "much" censorship).

I am gender critical and wish everyone else were, too, but it's less important to me than other issues, which is why I wouldn't even consider voting Tory this time. Every poll shows Labour well ahead, so I think I'm pretty normal.

I agree @EasternStandard .

There have been murmurings in the EU for a while now about how the current level of illegal immigrants crossing from North Africa is unsustainable. As a result of this migration we are seeing more populist politicians being voted as the local populations (not surprisingly) get very fed up - Italy and Germany off the top of my head.

Earlier this month it was reported that 7000 migrants arrived on Lampedusa in only 2 days. No matter how much you might want to help, it's clear that level of migration is unsustainable, even if every single one of those people was a legitimate refugee.

I'm not sure what the answer is long term but I do think it will be a key issue in the next GE and I don't think it's going to be pretty.

On the rest is politics the other day, they said when Major was in power the conservatives had 2.5 million members. I think they said now its a couple of hundred thousand.

Also when Major was in charge, MPs used to select the leader. That's how come Major was able to come in quickly after Thatcher. It meant MPs could pick a leader they wanted to work for. Now it's the members and there are drawn out contests. MPs might end up working for a leader they detest which makes it harder to run the government.

Those two factors I think are pushing us to an unworkable democracy. Leaders/leadership candidated taking extreme positions to court dwindling numbers of party members. And leaders who MPs don't respect them, so constant tension and infighting in the parties.

I think moderates should join, which is why i now have. I was a lib dem member in the past and will switch membership again should another party better reflect my views. But for now, Labour best reflects my centre left politics.

I think the chances of a Conservative government next time are rapidly approaching nil. If Max Hastings won't vote for you (and my Tory family are very much like him) then you are left with what he calls the flat earthers.

We’ll see.

I know there are hugely pro Labour supporters on these threads

@BloodyHellKen thanks. People might not realise quite in time but they will pretty soon

Right now stopping asylum seekers is seen as wrong, particularly by Labour mners

Thats not true at all, just a line spread by the Tories, who have seen net migration raise to over 600k per year - who wants open borders???

No one thinks the current level of migration is sustainable either into Europe or the UK, i think the Rwandan plan is just hot air.

As far as i'm aware, u18s wont be sent to Rwanda and neither will the Govt split familes up, so if a husband and wife arrived with her 3 children, aged 4, 7 and 9, they will not send the mother to Rwanda.

On 9 May 2022, the Home Office published its Equality Impact Assessment of the Rwanda policy, which gives details on who can be sent to Rwanda. The Equality Impact Assessment states that, “Excluding UASC, people of all ages are potentially eligible for relocation. At least initially, families with children will only be relocated voluntarily as part of family groups”. Thus, for the time being, children will not be sent to Rwanda on their own, and families will not be separated by sending only some family members to Rwanda but not others

We do have open borders! The figure has gone up and up every year since 2010. Fatuous claims about reducing it have increased however

You’re mixing up types of immigration

I’ll call it irregular migration, as illegal migration usually attracts posts

Work visas are controlled by requirements, which will go down

Reading the latest on the bill it is clear that using children has been considered, your link is 2022, look for 2023

All this detail is just rebutting small stuff. No one will confidently state that we don’t need a system for security soon. As I said all the pre climate pressure and pre increased volatility systems will be strained.

It’s already happening. We’ll take a bit longer as we have a strong aversion but generally I think the electorate will get there

I can’t see it as anything but inevitable, as climate change is inevitable

It’s this that has changed my views, just by looking forward.

Well aware of the legal vs irregular migration but that matters little to health housing etc here in the UK.
Many coming here will be on low wages (10% lower than UK citizens) and bring in large families too.

Yes it is 2022, the illegal migration bill has been watered down since then!!!

Climate change is going to cause large migration flows, so how do stop that?

As far as i can see, if you don't believe that foreign aid can help and that there aren't enough willing countries able to take 1000s of migrants, then you re left with using force?

I do genuinely believe that is what will happen in the Med, we will see boats towed back, migrants picked out the water, returned by force to Libya etc.