We are going to end up with a Conservative government AGAIN at this rate, is that ok with everyone?

[MentholLoad]

following a thread on AIBU I think about who would vote Tories again.....the main (only?) reason people are citing for voting Tories is the GC issue. Women totally abandoning social politics over a singular issue. declaring nothing else matters, if Labour can't get this right then, they won't vote for them

I can't work out if these people were Conservative voter's anyway/actually do agree that Conservative policy and practice generally, is in our best interests compared with Labour

OR they are prioritising GC issues above and at the exclusion of all else? because alot more women will have a lot more issues, if we have yet another round of Conservative Government

And they are ignoring that Labour (finally!) defined women as adult human female

AND ignoring that this whole debacle has happened under the Tories 🤷🏼‍♀️

Fullfact did show recently that we really aren't ahead on emissions, its just where the starting point was, per head we are a fair bit higher than France but our reduction was bigger because we had coal n got rid of it.

When was this? Because we almost identical to France on emissions per capita and our progress is one of pacing and catching up to them. We started higher, at the same point as Australia and if we’d not done the work, we’d be where Australia is today, not almost exactly where France is.

I think the conservatives have fucked up royally and they are on the way out.
I don’t think they will win again unless they somehow come up with convincing lies that fool the vulnerable.

Yes reports coming out that Hamas beheaded children, burned alive others, absolutely shocking, as much as i don't want civilians killed, i do support what Israel is doing, what do people expect?

I don't like Sunak but i do listen to him, how else can i make informed choices?

If boats turned back to France by force, ones that get through, taken straight to a plane and flown to Rwanda - no ifs or buts, then yes i agree, that would deter.

BUT thats not what is on offer.

Say 50k migrants cross channel, 1000 sent to Rwanda, what message does that send?

We do not refer to courts either here or the ECHR for contentious legislation, take the recent laws on public protest, numerous anti terrorist laws?

Any legal challenges, if any, done after the event.

The ECHR stopped planes last time, if they could override the hurdle without the court cases the government definitely would. They are ready to go if the case is successful, I’d put them knowing how key an issue it is for the GE.

As for 1000 migrants, the first 1000 need to be convinced that Rwanda is a price worth paying. I’d say people are connected enough to know the policy is in place when it happens and smugglers will find it difficult if the outcome is 100% for those initial people

On listening to Starmer the trust is gone so many words are empty, too many flip flops plus there is no more money so promises weak. If they had funding ideas I’d be more interested. But don’t worry I can still get the drift from other sources without hearing his voice.

Lifelong Labour voter with a lifelong Labour voting family. Most of us are involved somewhere along the line with local politics, Some of us are disabled with a degenerative disease.

We discussed this 'loyalty' over the weekend and have all come to the conclusion that the price of loyalty is no longer worth it.

The Labour Party we've voted for is NOT the Labour Party standing. No strong leadership, flip-flopping all over the place and too many other issues.

Our Labour council has wasted resources in the most shocking manner (£22k for 12 hanging baskets in our village and many other more serious waste). Shops that bought their own spent £40 initially then watered and fed throughout the summer themselves for peanuts.

Then there's the corruption. Our council firmly believes in helping out their own friends. They also have form for making local life difficult for voters who didn't support them. I do believe this goes all the way up.

On top of everything, I'd been told that Labour would be coming down hard on disabled people like me. After the conference, it seems my benefits advisor was correct.

When it comes down to it, they're ALL almost as bad as each other but at least the Tories have made a firm stand to support women.

It takes a very strong person to enter politics and not get drawn into the dark side of back-scratching and perks. Not many of those in the Tories these days, considerably fewer in Labour.

Anyone who votes for a party on a single issue isn't very bright. No party matches all my wants so you choosecthe best fit.

The tories have broken Britain is voting tactically in my area to get the tories out whoever that might be

Anyone who votes for a party on a single issue isn't very bright

I disagree

I’ve read many intelligent posts on this

Isn't voting anyone to get one party gone, a single issue? Your issue is with X party, so vote literally whoever to get them gone. It feels single issue unless there's something I've missed there.

There is a lot that you have missed here!

I will absolutely vote to get rid of the Tories because of their appalling record in government on a multitude of areas that I care about, such as the NHS, education, poverty etc. If they were delivering well in these areas, I wouldn't be motivated to get rid of them.

My issue is not with the Tory party per se, but rather with the values that drive their policies on the issues that matter to me. If they suddenly started to believe in social justice and expressed a commitment to investing in public services etc, I would be more than happy to consider them as a viable option.

Aw, the old 'people who don't vote like me are thick' position. Makes me all nostalgic for 2016.

@FKATondelayo cos Brexit worked out well 🙄.

I'm a remainer. The Remain campaign was poorly thought out and wrong headed and did nothing to persuade swing voters of the real and tangible benefits of EU membership.

Just as "You're the real woman-hater if you don't vote Labour" isn't going to convince me either.

The ECHR stopped planes last time, if they could override the hurdle without the court cases the government definitely would. They are ready to go if the case is successful, I’d put them knowing how key an issue it is for the GE

The ECHR ruled that the UK had to follow its own appeals process.

Had the UK followed its own laws, the case would never have gone to the ECHR.

Of course its an issue, a huge, the argument is what is the best way to stop migrants, not that they shouldn't be stopped.

I see Sunak has now decided to work with the EU, an idea which has previously been rubbished by the Tories when Starmer suggested it.

Never read that, what seems to be the counter argument is that the party that has been in for so long has done diddly squat for women, in fact made matters a whole lot worse, yet apparently, they will save us all now!!!!

Yes.
I see the new line is "the country has no money" - well who is that down to after 13 years of a Conservative government?
I can't believe anyone seriously thinks the Conservatives are safe on the economy, especially after the mini budget fiasco.

Had the UK followed its own laws, the case would never have gone to the ECHR

I haven’t read anything that aligns with your posts can you link where you are seeing this?

What do you mean by work with EU? Starmer got a no from EU during his visit

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2022/06/16/rwanda-deportations-what-is-the-european-court-of-human-rights-and-why-did-it-stop-the-uk-flight-from-taking-off/

Did he? i thought he got a very positive response from EU leaders but one MEP said no chance.
But of course the EU wont be negotiating with an opposition leader.

Does this article back up

Had the UK followed its own laws, the case would never have gone to the ECHR.

Could you quote the paragraph you mean

Or a line that says the current court case is not needed and the government could just go ahead?

I haven’t seen anything to indicate the government could just avoid court cases in any articles

You're doing it again. "If you don't vote Labour you must support the Evil Tories".

It's not true. It's a strawman. It's boring. Get a new argument.

Where did howpo mention labour?

it's possible to not vote Labour or Conservative you know

I see the Tories are making our society safer for women and everyone.🙄 The sooner we get these lazy, incompetent shower of shite out of office, the better.

Judges told to delay sentencing rapists and burglars cos there's no room in the prisons.

https://twitter.com/StevenSwinford/status/1712137102777888897?s=20

If you click on the ellipsis you can see they were responding to my point about not voting Labour.

Nope! You ve made that up!

The Tories are not evil, my mum was a Tory, she certainly wasn't evil, she was very kind and compassionate, as i'm sure many others are too.

I just don't get the argument that after 13 years and everything worse, people still want them.

Its like having a really unreliable car, costing you a fortune but not changing it out, thinking it will improve.

I have no guarantee Lab will be better but continuing with the Tories is madness.

@EasternStandard the article is clear, UK court and parliamentary process is paramount.

We didn't follow it, hence the SC case.

Are you suggesting the government could have avoided ECHR stopping planes. Can you quote the paragraph which states that?

I really have only seen your views on mn and no where in any articles.

In addition the government can’t just go ahead without the case in the SC. So even if the ECHR have now said domestic is ok they still have to go through that process