We are going to end up with a Conservative government AGAIN at this rate, is that ok with everyone?

[MentholLoad]

following a thread on AIBU I think about who would vote Tories again.....the main (only?) reason people are citing for voting Tories is the GC issue. Women totally abandoning social politics over a singular issue. declaring nothing else matters, if Labour can't get this right then, they won't vote for them

I can't work out if these people were Conservative voter's anyway/actually do agree that Conservative policy and practice generally, is in our best interests compared with Labour

OR they are prioritising GC issues above and at the exclusion of all else? because alot more women will have a lot more issues, if we have yet another round of Conservative Government

And they are ignoring that Labour (finally!) defined women as adult human female

AND ignoring that this whole debacle has happened under the Tories 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yup. Because Labour won't do any better nationally, & will make my life a lot worse.

Do try not to resort to personal abuse, it's not allowed on MN.

There is plenty of time for Manifestos to be edited.
But It is mortgages and the cost of living that will matter to most of us. It is so serious that we now hear many who are better off recognise the problems and will work to solve these problems.
We are told that Labour will not levy more taxes on most of us. More will be spent on NHS. That is a similar message to that we heard from the Conservatives.
Both are believable.

Given that there will be some attrition is there much between them? I don't think there will be much that divides them so not many reasons to vote for one rather than the other.
Therefore It will be on matters such 'Women' in all it's forms that will give us strong reasons to vote.

I do share some of your concerns BUT i'm not hearing how the Tories will change any of this?

They have had plenty of opportunity to do so but have done the opposite i.e made it easier to get a GRC, with cheaper certs and more clinics.

As for fluff, well a Classic "I know what a woman is" is a prime example, it needs actions to back that up.

The Tories instigated LD, now you can argue that Labour supported this and wanted to go further but that didn't happen, it was all done by a Tory govt, who have defunded the justice system (along with everything else)

BTW Rape prosecution timescales are often to do with the courts backlog but the failure to investigate lays with Police forces and the Home Office, which were also super low in 2019, mainly due to barristers leaving legal aid.

The head-patting "all women voters really care about is getting a GP, their local schools and the price of a supermarket shop" is patronising guff and often wrong (many of the biggest women's rights activists I know live in absolutely dire circumstances)

Its not patronising to state facts.

Polling of women shows that the Trans issue is not in the top 10.

In particular order - Its crime, policing, COL, health, environment, of course they may care about womens safe spaces but the vast majority are not affected by a Trans woman in a DV refuge or a man in a sports competition - i was at a XC event on Sunday, 300 plus women/girls, not a single Trans raced in any of the female events.
Niece works in NHS she cares about parking, waiting lists, ward closures, agency staff, strikes, poor pay, being attacked and not enough security/police to protect her - Trans? she looked at me blankly and said "its not an issue, extremely rare, a woman is 1000x more likely to be assaulted by a "normal" man" nd then get away with it.

My preferred path would be

Legislative change on biological sex - I’ve posted a few times it’s in process, and some have scoffed it won’t happen but honestly if anyone actually does care about women’s rights they should want this to happen even if it’s not their party doing it

Security for U.K. - I’m watching worldwide events and I feel a growing frustration at lack of realisation things will be more volatile and what we thought about migration etc will change, people’s beliefs will have to catch up

No politics of envy - just drop pointless vote grabbing policies that do very little

Investment in U.K. - I think Sunak can get this going

Use being ahead on climate to apportion the pain we’re going to face when aging puts us at 1 in 11 employed by 2036 by NHS, plus the sheer investment in water security and borders and so on

I mean I’m never going to warm to Labour in their current form but the above are what I care about given the changing world. It doesn’t have to be a particular party if the top lines can be met

I think we could all get behind those.

My concerns would on migration, the hows? Rwanda isn't going to work and once in international waters, we are duty bound to help them.

Agree on investment but i think being outside the EU is a disadvantage and the Tory party are divided, Truss came to the Conf and directly challenged Sunak on Tax, not good.
I like Labours Green Energy policies and having it state controlled, so we get to set the prices.

The Govt can legislate, i really don't get the faffing about to the ECHR, they don't make our laws before the fact.

Fullfact did show recently that we really aren't ahead on emissions, its just where the starting point was, per head we are a fair bit higher than France but our reduction was bigger because we had coal n got rid of it.

I'm not particularly taken by this iteration of Labour but i also believe 13 years is plenty of time to have something to show for this amount of time in power and i'm just not seeing it.

I think we could all get behind those.

That sounded positive but then rest of post maybe not ; I jest, people can disagree

My concerns would on migration, the hows? Rwanda isn't going to work and once in international waters, we are duty bound to help them

International law allows another location it doesn’t have to be your own country

The Govt can legislate, i really don't get the faffing about to the ECHR, they don't make our laws before the fact.

We need to follow process to avoid legal challenge, and given TRAs are very hot on legal threat it makes sense. I think all legislation has a consultation stage anyway.

Posters have put charts up on emissions, we’re ahead I’m ok with that, we’re going to need to balance huge costs incoming

The biggest divergence will be immigration imo

Will wait to see on court case

I don't know why you're bringing the "trans issue" (whatever that is) into what I said. I never mentioned trans issues once.

No personal abuse at all, absolute joke that post was edited.

Try not to be so sensitive.

The Govt can legislate, i really don't get the faffing about to the ECHR, they don't make our laws before the fact.
Lawyers have a good idea about the limits on what the Govt can do and what will land them in court for a very expensive and time consuming case. The ECHR is a bit catch-all I am told.
We saw how keen Cherie Blair was to work against the Government, probably made the family it;s fortune. Anti British liberals will always find the money to fund an attack.

I'm not convinced the trans issue is the main reason, but I do think we're going to have another Conservative government, yes.

@AdamRyan

you clearly missed my point. Which had nothing to do with animals, but Starmer had not defined female, does it or does it not include trans-women?

@tasslesated

well it bloody well will when men who self ID as female are in toilets/changing room/swimming bath changing areas abusing children. Wake up!

@Kendodd

they spent money in popular ways, but it's not sustainable! Kier seems to be labour inside & out, he's going to XYZ, none of it costed!

The point is, the UK can make its own laws and can and do ignore ECHR rulings, its been done here and beyond, around 11% of all judgements are ignored.

We cannot ignore the Supreme court.

As far as i can see, the ECHR is being used to excuse the UK Govt's inaction?

We have parliamentary process, Commons and HoL's, back to the Commons, the ECHR is being used to delay, cases take many years.

@EasternStandard Yes we can send migrants to other countries but so far the UK has only got Rwanda but even if the SC agrees it is a safe country, Rwanda has capacity for 1000 migrants, so a days worth on a sunny day.

How does that deter?

@Howpo Too many in House Of Lords would not support going against ECHR. Plus it would make a big confrontation with many Tories.
I would support stronger action against the illegals, but it still has to be practical and acceptable to Parliament. not risk street action either.
Politics is the art of the practically possible.

It's gone very quiet - are the Tories regrouping after todays speeches?
🍿

If you are referring to posters like me. Not at all. Still waiting for the Labour Party to define terms.

What is a woman?

What is a female?

Unless and until that happens it's all meaningless.

And calling women who don't fawn to Labour Tories is lazy.

Women who expect the opposition to, well, respect women as a sex class is not a right wing position.

I’m a bit in shock over Hamas and atrocities tbh

It’s not making me want a Labour gov more but reinforcing the world as increasing volatile, a point I made earlier

I didn’t listen to Starmer. I can’t bear his voice for a start.

@Howpo what could a smuggler say to you to convince you Rwanda is a good outcome? If no loopholes I’d say it will deter

I’m not sure about overriding courts I’m sure if it were that easy too class barristers would just advise the easy route

I want answers to JK Rowling's questions, of today, to Lisa Nandy.

They are the same as mine:

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1711825325582176334?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Women have to be able to ask these questions. We shouldn't be shamed to silence because the 'Tories are Evil'.

@fearfuloffluff

you might not agree, but how bloody rude to say it's incoherent. I'm off to bed, I'm too tired to engage with your post. If I remember @ get time, I might tomorrow.

@lifeturnsonadime it’s a typical tactic from some, just ignore

@lifeturnsonadime
Pity we will never get a full answer to that question.