I keep seeing this said online "Women live life on easy mode"

[dairysnow]

I keep seeing this all over the internet men saying "women live life on easy / tutorial mode" That women cannot understand the pain and suffering that men go though and that we are always taken care of, never have to struggle. That we are effortlessly loved, adored and given support emotional (from other women usually) just because we are female, beautiful, can have babies.

I think a lot of this because some men think that women can find sexual partners easily or are more frequently desired and to them that is the number one desirable situation to be in ( am really not so sure they would be happy to put up with being groped and sexually harassed or threatened in the way that many women are). These men never seem to take into account the difficulties women face the world over and through time in a world that is designed for men medical drugs, car seat belts tailored to men for example, that at every turn seeks to remove women's agency from them i.e. removing removing of reproductive rights in the states for example. That we still don't get paid the same as men, the motherhood penalty, sexual harassment, assault, rape, violence and murder at the hands of men, often those men closest to us. Many women (not all of course) suffer terribly with conditions like PCOS, Endometriosis, menstrual migraines, the physical risks inherent in pregnancy and childbirth or that women while they go to see a GP more readily are less likely to have there concerns treated seriously or be brushed off as suffering depression and anxiety when they are actually ill or that conditions that predominately affect women attract less funding and research. The social conditioning that commonly women are subjected to from birth teaching us to be compliant people pleasers, not to make a fuss and essentially take all kinds of abuse in life.

One choice post I saw suggested that for a man being rejected by a woman was worse than rape, in fact I think he called it "reverse rape" and that women who were raped were lucky because at least someone wanted them and they got sex out of it and that they were probably asking for it anyway. I mean what? They take the attitude that everything that goes wrong for a woman in her fault but that everything that goes wrong for them is always someone else's, usually a woman's fault. For them a woman never has to worry because she just "is" while a man must worry about how he can be a man, worry if he will ever find a partner, have children, how he will support those children and so on. As if women don't also worry about all of those things and more.

It seems to me that the kind of men who would say something like "women live life on easy mode" have zero empathy for women as complex human beings with a wide range of lived experience and only have in their minds eye the most attractive, young, privileged women (who are still complex human beings who suffer and struggle like the rest of us). Ultimately a man who says or thinks "women live life on easy mode" does not see women as a being a human just like him, we are objects to him, with no inner life and no purpose beyond our perceived utility to him. A man like that is going to struggle to find any woman who will be interested in him precisely because he sees her as a mindless object. He cannot understand that women do support each other so well partly because of how difficult and unsafe our lives can be in a male dominated world.

Perhaps it has always been like this and we just see these comments more often because of the internet but I don't think things like access to limitless hardcore pornography online is helping much. Or the fact that these attitudes are spreading to young men before they have ever even had a relationship with a woman. Women seem to be increasingly rejecting relationships with men and it isn't hard to see why.

My sil is 44, rich and has NEVER had a job, lucky her! She has no trouble filling her day and has a great life.

Dp earns the money then gives it to me. Why would I feel oppressed?

I haven't worked in 8 years and bloody love it! I got to go shopping without ds today and have a long lunch with a friend. Going to the gym now.

I dont work, I was able to be a sahm with my sons, both in 30s now. I lunch, dressmake, walk my dogs for miles, spend time with friends and family etc....
I also volunteer for a small homeless charity, something I am so passionate about, being literally close to home.
I feel totally fulfilled!

My DSis married a very high earner and has never worked a day in her life.

My DH works 80 hours a week for a signficant amount of money, which allows me to be a SAHM and indulge myself, allow me to do all of my volunteering and my hobbies.

I work just a few hours a week in a job I love doing, I don’t have to work for financial reasons. I’ve accidentally ended up with a really high earning DH.

I enjoy having lots of time to myself, I have hobbies, an amazing spa membership and am extremely fortunate to have some really good friends whom I’m able to see nearly every week.

My SIL is lucky enough to not have to work due to DB’s income. She has nice things, goes out for lots of lunches.

I'm a SAHM who has teenage children and is fortunate to be married to a high earner so I haven't needed to work since having kids. We do have a lifestyle that most people would find impressive.

I choose not to work. DH works really long shifts and odd hours so can be out of the house either days or nights, with each week being different. When the kids are grown I'll go and get some post-sahm work. Maybe in a shop, factory, cafe or something similar.

The funniest post was Monday morning when she started by posting “it’s going to be a long week, hoping the nanny isn’t late” followed by “anyone know a place I can get nails done, not happy with the place I’ve been going as I think they overcharge and wanting a day to pamper myself a bit.”

I feel lucky that I don't need to work. I am not getting any benefits because dh earns enough.

I'm lucky in that I didn't have to carry on working.

I am lucky enough not to work and stay at home with my son, as DH is a high earner. I feel extremely grateful for this every day, and try very hard not to take it for granted.

My friend is married to the son of a billionaire and sometimes I have to block her on social media because her life is one long holiday.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3764425-To-think-you-are-very-lucky-if-you-dont-have-to-work

Anyway, here's some excerpts from a feminist's take on the matter....

If equality means sending my daughters to war, I want no part of it

I don't live there and we don't have the draft. Also, with the gender split of the American Houses, and the fact that it's a democracy, men can get rid of it if they want. Women's right to safe abortion being removed by the same gender split is a very different matter.

Why would I be bothered about blokes not having this option when the majority of women - including me - don’t either?

And yet this argument is never wheeled out when people are frothing about male CEOs. 🤔

There’s no need. It’s now obvious that you aren’t talking about how most women live.

How convenient. 😂

I've said my bit. I'm sick of women moaning about how easy men have it whilst ignoring the privileges many of us have access to, whether or not we choose to accept them.

I actually care for both sexes equally but with this subforum being so dismissive of men that's always seen as misogyny.
Well, at least 93% of UK women share my interest in equality whilst rejecting what now passes for 'feminism'.

I'd be more sympathetic to a man worried about being attacked or being called up to serve if it were not for the rather bizarre assumption that what men do to each other is for some reason women's problem to solve.

Women's right to vote, to education, to have careers, to have control over finances, to have maternity leave and refuges and rape crisis centres and a host of other things exist precisely because women organised and campaigned to change laws and precedents around this.

The second wave feminist movement (along with other civil rights groups at the time) in the US was outspoken about being opposed to the draft, as well as many other women who would not have identified themselves as feminists but were mothers or otherwise related to the men called up to serve. While there were male public figures and intellectuals who publicly opposed the war, the overwhelming majority of men who campaigned against the draft were students who would have been eligible for the draft themselves. There is not much in the way of older men or fathers of potential draftees organising en masse on behalf of young men, to oppose conscription.

(It might also be worth pointing out that the draft was last used in 1973. The US has been quite capable of carpet bombing thousands of civilians since then without resorting to conscription, and I'm not entirely convinced that there's many young American men who are weighed down by the thought of a military draft. Obviously, in other countries this would be very different).

I'd have a great respect for the men who are supposedly so concerned about men's issues if they did what women did and actually organised or campaigned for change rather then going "what are feminists doing about it?"

If men want to campaign to tackle -say- gang related violence, poor educational outcomes for working class boys, the male suicide rate, substance abuse problems, military drafts, domestic abuse against men, child soldiers in the Congo, bacha bazi boys, the online radicalisation of teenage boys... the list goes on... then more power to them. Men do have problems which are specific to them, as well as ones which affect them disproportionately, and it would be fantastic if there were actually a men's rights movement that helped men instead of just hated women.

Women do not live life on easy mode. That's not to say that there aren't women who have easy lives- sometimes at the expense of others- or that there aren't plenty of men who have difficult ones. But I'd disagree strongly that men as a class have it harder than women, and I find it quite difficult to muster sympathy for a lot of men who's go to reaction when they've had a tough time of it is to whinge that women are doing nothing about it.

Hate to break it to you but the vast majority of those mumsnet posters I quoted are from the UK.

Yep, those quotes back up what I’ve said. 1. It’s not the norm. 2. It’s a lifestyle enabled by men - not sure why something men choose to do is cause for feeling men are hard done by?

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make about male CEOs, but if it’s about pay parity with women at the same level then that is not equivalent to the above at all.

You’ve picked on a privilege that a minority of men, entirely of their own volition, bestow upon a minority of women that those men select. It’s not ‘convenient’ for me to point out that this is hardly an example of how hard life is for men compared to women, it’s just an obvious conclusion.

@TorqueWrench Sorry, but no. Afghanistan has a tradition of grassroots feminist praxis. It’s just that they are often pushed underground when regimes like the Taliban take over. These women continue their work at great risk to their own lives.
Countries like India also have a very long tradition of ‘social reformation’ movements and various sorts of feminist theory and activism. Read Vandana Shiva’s ecofeminist work, for example.

I'd have a great respect for the men who are supposedly so concerned about men's issues if they did what women did and actually organised or campaigned for change rather then going "what are feminists doing about it?"

If men want to campaign to tackle -say- gang related violence, poor educational outcomes for working class boys, the male suicide rate, substance abuse problems, military drafts, domestic abuse against men, child soldiers in the Congo, bacha bazi boys, the online radicalisation of teenage boys... the list goes on... then more power to them. Men do have problems which are specific to them, as well as ones which affect them disproportionately, and it would be fantastic if there were actually a men's rights movement that helped men instead of just hated women.

Well, they tried this thing called International Men's Day but feminists tended to oppose it.

Some examples are the University of York cancelling it after several hundred feminists petitioned - they released a statement saying they were 'going to continue to focus on the issues faced by women instead'. Great timing to cancel a talk about male issues considering a male student had committed suicide only days before - other male students were saying it made them feel as if they were unimportant.

Also, the feminist MP Jess Phillips actually chuckling in parliament as a guy read his proposal for 'a day to focus on men's issues'. He actually stopped and asked what was funny to which she replied that every day was international men's day. Try and tell that to all the homeless men and the 80 a week that commit suicide (both issues being overwhelming represented amongst men).

Oh, and maybe read the past threads on here where there are always posters trying to ridicule and shut down discussion (and a fair few supportive ones too).

I feel like men are much more aware of women's issues/feminism than the reverse in spite of men being more violent and more likely to be abusers.

For me, the fact that there are plenty of bad men out there doesn't mean that I'm going to stop caring about the good men. A battle of the sexes doesn't help anyone although many feminists seem to want one (often privileged white women that want to play victim but aren't actually particularly oppressed or likely to bear the consequences of pissing men off).

It’s a lifestyle enabled by men - not sure why something men choose to do is cause for feeling men are hard done by?

You could say the same thing about women participating in porn and young girls copying these acts with young men. Why feel hard done by when you chose to do it yourself?

Societal conditioning/pressure innit.

No, I couldn’t say the same thing at all. Absurd comparison that makes me think you’re messing about. I’m not going to waste my time pointing out why they aren’t remotely similar situations.

You’re obviously the sort of poster who, rather than defend a point logically, keeps pulling in more and more nonsense to distract (like the silly gotcha about UK posters to a pp who was addressing a different point), so I’m out.

Well, they tried this thing called International Men's Day but feminists tended to oppose it.

Total bullshit. Every IWD or International why isn't there an international men's day day as it is better known, men everywhere mither about it and moan. Constantly. IMD even if it was opposed by women (which it isn't) could be funded and supported by men. But all the men I know ignore it, or also say, "ha ha it's every day".

They want to raise awareness of homelessness, suicide, male cancers or trauma, I would support it wholeheartedly. This feminist has worked tirelessly, most of her life, supporting men. In prisons, youth work, facilitation, gang-involved youth, homeless shelters, in mainly female-staffed places with male clients.

At least try to make points that are internally logical and factual.

this! Would love to see the man take on the mental load of a woman, especially a mum, for a day and see how 'easy' it is!

I think that for the vast majority of people and cultures, men have the easy setting.

OTOH, for university educated wealthy middle class women in the UK, I would agree with those who say women have it easier, for a variety of reasons. I think that they have won the battles they fought and they have kept the advantages that tend to go the other way (marrying wealth, result of divorce, the option to stay at home).

I am very aware, though. that this is a tiny privileged stratum of society (although a chunk of the MN demographic).

I have thought in the past that you could make a case that the average woman has it easier than the average man before marriage but that changes after marriage and with children.

Most men don't work hard because they enjoy it, they do it because they feel they have to to get married and have the sort of family life expected of them. They have to stick with a job even if they hate their boss. They have to continually demand promotion even if they would hate the extra responsibility and having to supervise others.

You could say the same is true of women. Perhaps it is becoming more true for women in the modern world, or less true for (middle-class) men. Or maybe men aren't bothering about it so much nowdays, it's not as if they get any credit for it.

I keep seeing this all over the internet men saying "women live life on easy / tutorial mode"

Where on earth are you seeing this. I've never seen it. If men are saying this it's to wind up women so best thing is is to sort out your social media algorithms and ignore.

We don't have a draft to sign up to but women were first eligible for conscription in the UK in 1942 (non combat but there were women on the front Line). So later than UK men but much sooner than Johnny come lately USA. I have no idea if in a future war we would be conscripted to combat roles like men or not. If you are talking about American wars then lots and lots of women (and children) died during Vietnam for example. Not American women admittedly but human beings nonetheless. Men suffer hugely in war but the idea only men suffer is assinine.

Also looking after children isn't easy. It may be hugely rewarding, it may be something many women want to do, it may be valuable but it isn't easy. I work, I would have liked to work a little less when my son was younger but not because I thought it was an easier option.

@TorqueWrench

Then imagine you were 4x more likely to be attacked by a stranger but the focus was always on how men feel unsafe about being attacked and all the initiatives were aimed at keeping men safe.

That's not what crime stats actually say though, is it? More men suffer bodily harm, yes. Doesn't mean they were, all to a man, passive victims of unprovoked attacks rather than got themselves into fights and came off worse. We can't tell either way from the numbers alone.

women who were raped were lucky because at least someone wanted them and they got sex out of it

I read somewhere that a way for men to understand unwanted attention, sexual assault and rape is for them to place themselves in the mindset of someone in prison who has taken the fancy of the resident anal rapist. I wonder how chill they would feel with “being wanted” and “getting sex” in this scenario?

A person using a gaming analogy in an attempt to describe real life just makes me disregard everything he says forevermore.

Honestly what a pile of baloney

You might as well say - imagine if you were paid 83 cents to the dollar (which is the US male/female pay gap)

Imagine if you did more than double household work even when you both work FT (female/male US figures)

Imagine if you were 5 times more likely to be murdered by your opposite sex partner than the other social group (female/male US stats)

Imagine if your social group held only 30% of S&P board positions (28% equivalent in the UK and in both cases women are on average younger and serve for less time), even though it is well demonstrated that having some on boards increases good governance.

Men don’t know or care about this stuff either.

Both genders have some issues the other doesn’t tend to understand well, but overall it’s clear women loose out financially, do more care, and suffer more violence from the opposite sex. (The US draft example isn’t a good equivalent, given the last time it was used is 1973, and given that the way war has changed means it is increasingly less likely to be used in future.)

Anyway OP - hang out in less crazy places online. The Incel movement is a worry but it also gets disproportionate attention. Neither Incels nor their handmaidens (if this PP is female) are good for your mental health.

Spend some time in positive places instead.

Men are angry about birth rates dropping, but are unable to build a society thats fit to raise children in. Maternal mortality rates in the US are among the worst in the developed world. Your healthcare sucks. The US doesn't have paid maternity leave, or any system in place for supporting pregnant women or new mothers. The leading cause for death of pregnant women in the US is men.

Try to talk about this with men in the US and they act like that women getting something 'for free' is an insult aimed at them personally. Its down to their belief that individuals are responsible for themselves, and we should all be left to sink or swim.
Men are stressed at being the main breadwinner and also stressed if that role is removed from them. Women can't win; whatever we do is wrong and the problem is always the same. Men's anger. The 'lone wolf' mentality that drives men's loneliness, your anger, your sense of isolation. Your inability to talk to one another, and your subsequent need to use women as emotional support animals.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/20/study-men-get-more-stressed-when-their-wives-make-more-money.html

Some men defo seem resistant to discussing it but usually that's because they don't see themselves as being responsible for the actions of other individuals.

It's not an isolated reaction tbf. I mean, look how white feminists react when WOC attempt to engage with them! Every thread seems to go the exact same way.

Every thread goes the same way because men want to deflect and 'win' by posting whataboutery and gotchas.

(Confession: I am a white middle aged man)

That question always strikes me as a failure in empathy. Looking over the fence and seeing "their" side the grass is greener because... and refusing to see the crap covering the grass.

Rather than arguing to see which side has greenest, tastiest grass and causing division it might be better to work together to find better solutions to problems that affect both: e.g. poverty & addiction if you are one of the lucky ones that live in a developed nation or something more fundamental like access to a toilet at all if you don't.

Incidentally, that brings me on to my favourite charity: https://toilettwinning.org who work on this very matter "Every day, over 700 children under 5 die from diarrhoea linked to unsafe water, sanitation and poor hygiene."

Apologies for the plug and derail - back to discussing if first world men or first world women have it worse.