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Feminism: chat

I keep seeing this said online "Women live life on easy mode"

97 replies

dairysnow · 22/09/2023 10:30

I keep seeing this all over the internet men saying "women live life on easy / tutorial mode" That women cannot understand the pain and suffering that men go though and that we are always taken care of, never have to struggle. That we are effortlessly loved, adored and given support emotional (from other women usually) just because we are female, beautiful, can have babies.

I think a lot of this because some men think that women can find sexual partners easily or are more frequently desired and to them that is the number one desirable situation to be in ( am really not so sure they would be happy to put up with being groped and sexually harassed or threatened in the way that many women are). These men never seem to take into account the difficulties women face the world over and through time in a world that is designed for men medical drugs, car seat belts tailored to men for example, that at every turn seeks to remove women's agency from them i.e. removing removing of reproductive rights in the states for example. That we still don't get paid the same as men, the motherhood penalty, sexual harassment, assault, rape, violence and murder at the hands of men, often those men closest to us. Many women (not all of course) suffer terribly with conditions like PCOS, Endometriosis, menstrual migraines, the physical risks inherent in pregnancy and childbirth or that women while they go to see a GP more readily are less likely to have there concerns treated seriously or be brushed off as suffering depression and anxiety when they are actually ill or that conditions that predominately affect women attract less funding and research. The social conditioning that commonly women are subjected to from birth teaching us to be compliant people pleasers, not to make a fuss and essentially take all kinds of abuse in life.

One choice post I saw suggested that for a man being rejected by a woman was worse than rape, in fact I think he called it "reverse rape" and that women who were raped were lucky because at least someone wanted them and they got sex out of it and that they were probably asking for it anyway. I mean what? They take the attitude that everything that goes wrong for a woman in her fault but that everything that goes wrong for them is always someone else's, usually a woman's fault. For them a woman never has to worry because she just "is" while a man must worry about how he can be a man, worry if he will ever find a partner, have children, how he will support those children and so on. As if women don't also worry about all of those things and more.

It seems to me that the kind of men who would say something like "women live life on easy mode" have zero empathy for women as complex human beings with a wide range of lived experience and only have in their minds eye the most attractive, young, privileged women (who are still complex human beings who suffer and struggle like the rest of us). Ultimately a man who says or thinks "women live life on easy mode" does not see women as a being a human just like him, we are objects to him, with no inner life and no purpose beyond our perceived utility to him. A man like that is going to struggle to find any woman who will be interested in him precisely because he sees her as a mindless object. He cannot understand that women do support each other so well partly because of how difficult and unsafe our lives can be in a male dominated world.

Perhaps it has always been like this and we just see these comments more often because of the internet but I don't think things like access to limitless hardcore pornography online is helping much. Or the fact that these attitudes are spreading to young men before they have ever even had a relationship with a woman. Women seem to be increasingly rejecting relationships with men and it isn't hard to see why.

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TorqueWrench · 22/09/2023 23:24

Sorry, didn't get through the whole post but (despite there being some pretty vile incels out there) I think there are a few negative things men face that tend to get ignored in a way women's issues don't.

For example, imagine if you had to sign up for the military draft to be eligible for citizenship, state benefits/financial aid, and state vocational training but men got all that regardless. If you not signing up was 'a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years imprisonment' but that didn't apply to men.

This is the reality for all US men and most women don't even seem aware of it, yet alone care.

Also, imagine if you had to work five years longer than men despite them living five years longer than you on average. This has been the reality for most UK men until recently and men didn't even complain about it as much as some women complain about manspreading.

Then imagine you were 4x more likely to be attacked by a stranger but the focus was always on how men feel unsafe about being attacked and all the initiatives were aimed at keeping men safe. When you challenge this you're told that it's because of the types of places you frequent and the rowdy, drunk clientele. However, if you point to the actions men take which put their safety at risk you're chastised for 'victim blaming'.

I'm defo an egalitarian yet I see the unfairness in some of these examples myself, so it's not hard to see why disenfranchised men might find them hard to swallow and become embittered.

truthhurts23 · 22/09/2023 23:34

we are always taken care of, never have to struggle. That we are effortlessly loved, adored and given support emotional
😂
I don't listen to anything incels have to say,
even if they want to believe their own b.s, what are they actually going to do about it? other than mope and complain and not make any attempt to improve their own circumstances
you couldn't pay me to care about the struggles of men

all they want to do is draw women into debates with them so they can actually conversate and interact with a woman 😂they are so desperate

FinallyHere · 22/09/2023 23:40

Yeah. Right.

TorqueWrench · 22/09/2023 23:52

UnWilly · 22/09/2023 23:39

This is quite an interesting read about 'difficulty settings' as an analogy

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

If I was a white male I'd probs find that pretty patronising, not least because nobody ever talks about asian privilege and the better health and financial outcomes of asian males in developed countries. But of course in the world of wokeness non-white people can only be oppressed.

And in reality straight white females are second only in privilege to the men they marry, whose financial succcess they benefit greatly from in spite of moaning about it.

If it were a race, straight white males would get gold, straight white females would get silver, and most people wouldn't even get to run the race because they can't afford running shoes.

TorqueWrench · 22/09/2023 23:54

you couldn't pay me to care about the struggles of men

Which probably makes you worse than the majority of men (and is probs why 93% of UK women believe in 'equality' but clearly state they aren't feminists).

Boomboom22 · 22/09/2023 23:56

I think men live life on easy mode. Everything just happens around them and they go to work and maybe do the surface housework cooking etc but none of the actual work.

beastlyslumber · 23/09/2023 00:06

I think this is all bollocks. The only people who live life on "easy mode" are rich people.

And I think that being healthy and able bodied is also "easy mode" although it's probably more accurate to say that if you have chronic illness or disability you're living life on "difficult mode."

The rest of it is divisive bollocks. Life is harder for men in some ways, easier in others. Same for women. It shouldn't be a competition who has it worse. That's very dependent on the context.

EmmaEmerald · 23/09/2023 00:16

OP - you are seeing this "all over the internet"? Could you please say more about where you see it?

TorqueWrench · 23/09/2023 00:20

Boomboom22 · 22/09/2023 23:56

I think men live life on easy mode. Everything just happens around them and they go to work and maybe do the surface housework cooking etc but none of the actual work.

But some men argue that we often stop working at 30 whilst they have to graft for nearly four more decades. That we have a few tough years then it's feet up for ever after once the kids are at school.

Grass is seemingly always greener.

TorqueWrench · 23/09/2023 00:21

beastlyslumber · 23/09/2023 00:06

I think this is all bollocks. The only people who live life on "easy mode" are rich people.

And I think that being healthy and able bodied is also "easy mode" although it's probably more accurate to say that if you have chronic illness or disability you're living life on "difficult mode."

The rest of it is divisive bollocks. Life is harder for men in some ways, easier in others. Same for women. It shouldn't be a competition who has it worse. That's very dependent on the context.

Couldn't agree more.

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/09/2023 00:28

For example, imagine if you had to sign up for the military draft to be eligible for citizenship, state benefits/financial aid, and state vocational training but men got all that regardless. If you not signing up was 'a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years imprisonment' but that didn't apply to men.

This is the reality for all US men and most women don't even seem aware of it, yet alone care.

Well I'm not American so no. And if you can mention the US, I can mention Afghanistan or Papua New Guinea. MUCH worse than the draft.

TorqueWrench · 23/09/2023 00:32

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/09/2023 00:28

For example, imagine if you had to sign up for the military draft to be eligible for citizenship, state benefits/financial aid, and state vocational training but men got all that regardless. If you not signing up was 'a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years imprisonment' but that didn't apply to men.

This is the reality for all US men and most women don't even seem aware of it, yet alone care.

Well I'm not American so no. And if you can mention the US, I can mention Afghanistan or Papua New Guinea. MUCH worse than the draft.

Yeah, but that's like mentioning men down coal mines or child soldiers. It's not really comparing like to like. The women in Afghanistan aren't the ones writing feminist theory and complaining about male privilege. It's women in the US/UK and other western countries.

JamSandle · 23/09/2023 00:33

Life isn't easy for anyone.

Tiny2018 · 23/09/2023 00:37

Only got as far as the first paragraph, because vino.

No. Us women look after everyone, we have the weight of the world on our shoulders on a daily basis. The emotional labour is constant, we do not stop worrying.

That said, men have their own problems, but do I personally think men have it worse? Absolutely not.

OhcantthInkofaname · 23/09/2023 00:43

TorqueWrench · 22/09/2023 23:24

Sorry, didn't get through the whole post but (despite there being some pretty vile incels out there) I think there are a few negative things men face that tend to get ignored in a way women's issues don't.

For example, imagine if you had to sign up for the military draft to be eligible for citizenship, state benefits/financial aid, and state vocational training but men got all that regardless. If you not signing up was 'a felony punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years imprisonment' but that didn't apply to men.

This is the reality for all US men and most women don't even seem aware of it, yet alone care.

Also, imagine if you had to work five years longer than men despite them living five years longer than you on average. This has been the reality for most UK men until recently and men didn't even complain about it as much as some women complain about manspreading.

Then imagine you were 4x more likely to be attacked by a stranger but the focus was always on how men feel unsafe about being attacked and all the initiatives were aimed at keeping men safe. When you challenge this you're told that it's because of the types of places you frequent and the rowdy, drunk clientele. However, if you point to the actions men take which put their safety at risk you're chastised for 'victim blaming'.

I'm defo an egalitarian yet I see the unfairness in some of these examples myself, so it's not hard to see why disenfranchised men might find them hard to swallow and become embittered.

Talk about tripe!

TorqueWrench · 23/09/2023 00:51

Being an above attractive female with a good body (always loved the gym) I feel pretty privileged tbf. I'm pretty sure I could've already married a wealthy guy and sat on my arse enjoying my privilege had I wanted. God knows I've had enough try to ask me out.

This lifestyle is, of course, unthinkable to feminists so they call these women 'pick me's' and 'handmaidens' and try to disassociate themselves. But in reality women who choose to do this are still every bit as female as the most ardent radfem.

The conversation always veers to the risk of losing your career and being fucked over when he leaves you for the younger model. However, I kinda feel like this is in itself a somewhat privileged perspective.

Let's look at it from another angle....

The guy that works at the local betting shop on minimum wage. Imagine if somebody approached him and said "How's about this mate. You can quit your job but you'll get to drive a nice new BMW and have loads more money than you do now. You can spend all your time on your hobbies and may even be able to do this forever or walk away with a decent chunk of money if the benefactor changes their mind."

Is the guy going to fret about losing his minimum wage job at the betting shop? Is he fuck.

Unfortunately, nobody will ever make him this offer because he's male, but many women in the same situation can and do choose to accept. They have the privilege of choice as do I.

TheAntiGardener · 23/09/2023 00:54

TorqueWrench · 23/09/2023 00:20

But some men argue that we often stop working at 30 whilst they have to graft for nearly four more decades. That we have a few tough years then it's feet up for ever after once the kids are at school.

Grass is seemingly always greener.

This example is so anachronistic as to be pointless. The work until you have kids model has not been the norm for a couple of generations now. I’m in my 40s and know of no contemporary who has stopped working at 30.

For those generations that did live like this, and the cultures that still do, it was hardly an easy option for most. While men got to retire at some point, the angel of the hearth role had no end. No weekends or evenings off from care and housework. No point at which you can say you’ve done enough years and put your feet up.

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/09/2023 00:56

The guy that works at the local betting shop on minimum wage. Imagine if somebody approached him and said "How's about this mate. You can quit your job but you'll get to drive a nice new BMW and have loads more money than you do now. You can spend all your time on your hobbies and may even be able to do this forever or walk away with a decent chunk of money if the benefactor changes their mind."

But you have to fuck a gross middle-aged man in order to get this. Would he leave his job for that? I don't think so.

TorqueWrench · 23/09/2023 01:12

OhcantthInkofaname · 23/09/2023 00:43

Talk about tripe!

So you don't think that women would complain about having to work five years longer than men or being the only sex to be drafted? Given that plenty moan about things like men having their legs too far apart on the train.

We actually don't need to guess though because we have real world examples. Funnily enough, when the US Gov proposed to extend the draft to women many feminists suddenly took notice and noped the fuck out. Many tried to say "send the men....they're stronger". I didn't see any suggesting that nobody should in fact be sent off to fight to the death at the threat of imprisonment/heavy fines/loss of citizenship.

Anyway, here's some excerpts from a feminist's take on the matter....

If equality means sending my daughters to war, I want no part of it

I admit that as a mom to two young girls, the draft is not something I have ever given much thought to. It was only when I heard that Congress is seeking to expand selective service requirements to include both genders that I realized how much I oppose it.

When you are not included in something that no one wants to do — in this case, going off to war — it’s not discrimination; it’s a privilege.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sheknows.com/living/articles/1120821/drafting-women/amp/

Portrait of an air woman

Uncle Sam, don't you dare draft my daughters

Think drafting women is equality? About that...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sheknows.com/living/articles/1120821/drafting-women/amp

TorqueWrench · 23/09/2023 01:19

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/09/2023 00:56

The guy that works at the local betting shop on minimum wage. Imagine if somebody approached him and said "How's about this mate. You can quit your job but you'll get to drive a nice new BMW and have loads more money than you do now. You can spend all your time on your hobbies and may even be able to do this forever or walk away with a decent chunk of money if the benefactor changes their mind."

But you have to fuck a gross middle-aged man in order to get this. Would he leave his job for that? I don't think so.

A gross middle aged man. 🙄

I've had some pretty dishy blokes try and date me and insinuate they'd 'look after me'. Successful, charming, well adjusted men who look after themselves physically as well as financially.

I could never choose that life but let's not start trying to downplay it out of defensiveness.

dairysnow · 23/09/2023 01:22

Sorry everyone I forgot rule numero uno, don't feed the incel / manosphere losers, my bad. No point in arguing with men like that they aren't interested in a conversation they only want to beat women down.

OP posts:
TorqueWrench · 23/09/2023 01:24

TheAntiGardener · 23/09/2023 00:54

This example is so anachronistic as to be pointless. The work until you have kids model has not been the norm for a couple of generations now. I’m in my 40s and know of no contemporary who has stopped working at 30.

For those generations that did live like this, and the cultures that still do, it was hardly an easy option for most. While men got to retire at some point, the angel of the hearth role had no end. No weekends or evenings off from care and housework. No point at which you can say you’ve done enough years and put your feet up.

I can find you a fair number of examples from this forum alone if you'd like. Actual quotes and links to the threads in question.

There have been a fair few discussions before about the privileges of not working (as well as the negatives) and other posters less lazy than me have previously collated loads of quotes to challenge the assertions that these women are stereotypes/don't exist.

I could probs find the threads. One was in the last year.

TorqueWrench · 23/09/2023 01:30

dairysnow · 23/09/2023 01:22

Sorry everyone I forgot rule numero uno, don't feed the incel / manosphere losers, my bad. No point in arguing with men like that they aren't interested in a conversation they only want to beat women down.

You mean 'shut down anyone that doesn't agree'. The way that any woman who doesn't agree on here is called a man would be funny if it wasn't so cringe.

I'll just post the quotes and you can make your own minds up.

For full disclosure, there were equal numbers of women on the aforementioned threads saying they'd love to be able to work but couldn't due to disability etc. However, my point is that you'd never find a thread anywhere on the internet (let alone on here) with an equal number of male posters waxing lyrical about how their partner supports them in chilling out all day and doing their hobbies.

TheAntiGardener · 23/09/2023 01:35

I can find you a fair number of examples from this forum alone if you'd like. Actual quotes and links to the threads in question.

There’s no need. It’s now obvious that you aren’t talking about how most women live.

There aren’t enough wealthy men to go around in order to permit anything like most women to give up work for a life of leisure at a young age. This is a lifestyle that depends entirely on being one of minority fortunate enough to be chosen by a suitable man, who is presumably getting something out of the deal too as none of us is forced to take on a non-working partner.

Why would I be bothered about blokes not having this option when the majority of women - including me - don’t either?