Russell Brand accused of rape, sexual assaults and abuse: The Times/Sunday Times story

[BrontëParsonage]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d4d93e74-5478-11ee-bc18-cbdd58145dc6?shareToken=b3cd34ae6268daad4741e6c092ceac97

I also think Brand got away with some of this due to the culture in the 90s and early 2000s. This was a time of hedonism amongst quite a few of celebs where alcoholic consumption was massive along with copious drug taking. I guess there was almost a an element of sexual hedonism amongst these high profile people which was basically accepted. Brand probably used this tacit acceptance of sexual liberation to push the boundaries of consent.

Brand as far as I remember was always portrayed as the wild child of the comedy cicuit, the celeb equivalent of George Best. The zany anarchic persona Brand adopted , always being on the edge, was probably a great way to mask his lifestyle. Someone mentioned being hidden in plain sight and I think this is a really good point.

It is now a bit worrying looking back at the 90s and noughties what really was acceptable such as casual misogny exhibited by a range of TV and radio presenters. The era of Brit pop mimicking the swinging 60s created a culture where sexual crime was all just part of a sex, drugs and rock and roll regeneration.

In these slightly more songs times we are looking back at maybe quite a few characters with a new lens and starting to appreciate just how deviant some of the behaviour was.

I think it is positive that we delete post referring to victims as tarts as it shows our attitudes have changed marginally for the better. During the height of Brand's fame the accusers would probably have been labelled as 'groupies' or such like. It is a positive that we now trying to show that assault is assault no matter the relationship between the people involved or then power balance. We hopefully have got rid of attitudes such as 'well you went out with a wild hedonistic superstar with a strange range of views what did you expect?'

I'm not sure we have. There were posts on other threads saying that girls were throwing themselves at him so what did they expect? A lot of people seem to think that if a woman says yes to sex once with a man, then he is entitled to use her as a sex toy whenever, however and wherever for as long as he wants.

@Clymene

that is worrying and possibly a reason for the women to take time to reveal their experience. I think because some of the accusations are from initially consensual relationships the complainants would really have been reluctant to have all their intimate relationships bared in court.

I wonder how many others in the celeb world have taken the view that if women 'throw themselves ' at them it is carte b lanche for any other sexual digression including assualt. The groupie phenomenon has been around for some time and it would not surprise me if this case prompts a flurry of other accusations.

I'd be amazed if there isn't more to come. The brave women who spoke up are just the ones who were prepared to talk. I'm sure there are many others who weren't contacted by the journalists or who didn't feel ready to talk but may change their minds.
Some other big names were mentioned before this story broke. I wonder if there's more to come out there.

This will ripple, certainly

Danni Minogue - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12528459/Dannii-Minogue-labels-Russell-Brand-vile-predator-wouldnt-no-answer-resurfaced-interview.html

Ahh sorry this is recycled from a couple of decades ago.

What I worry is that nothing will happen now. And I worry about the message that will send. I fully believe and support these brave women and I don't for one second think they should have not spoken out. But I see the misogyny in our world in general and I worry that it's getting worse.

Same, Eresh.

But we must take heart, because we have to.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I think you can be slightly more positive. There was a case in the US where an actor on that 70s show has been jailed for 30 years and the collective action of the Spanish football team shows that things can change although slowly.

I think Brand probably thought himself invunerable for a long time and now suddenly he is faced with a well researched series of allegations which will certainly end his career at least in the main stream.

TV executives are extremely wary of such allegations post Saville so they will distance themselves from Brand quickly. I listened to radio 1 today and there was a balanced piece where the women's allegations were stated in a little detail. I don't know if this would have happened 20 years ago.

If everyone thought the allegations false then RBs agent wouldn't have dropped hi I'm and there is the possibility more will come out (as with previous cases).

The only thing that will be difficult is a criminal prosecution but who knows if some one else will come forward?

Yes I agree. What I worry is that it won't end his career because of the plausible deniability and amount of apologism.

Sharron Davies has posted saying he's being attacked for speaking out about the profits Big Pharma made from Covid.

x.com/sharrond62/status/1703350058194731180?s=61&t=gd6tu0Iz6JpyKXGLWMLGjg

Really disappointing. Clear implication that this is a stitch up to silence him.

Either by accident or design, Russell Brand's career trajectory over the years has been to move away from TV or films towards You Tube and conspiracy theories. His agency may have dropped him but there are many other people - like the example from Sharron Davies Clymene posted above - who believe he is being deliberately targeted. At this stage we don't know whether the reports will result in a prosecution but the current rate of successful convictions can't give the women involved much hope.

What has given me pause for thought is that I really took the confession of 'sex addict' at face value and never really considered that it could involve non consensual relationships. There's a Father Brown story that includes the question 'Where does a wise man hide a leaf?' 'In a forest'. What better way of distracting everyone than saying you were a sex addict?

@nettie434

Completely agree. Maybe the sex addiction line was partially to psychologically absolve himself of what may be criminal action. Possibly in his mind he glossed over his actions by putting them down to an addiction?

I was watching his video and thought there was something comically biblical about him with a messianic air with the associated martyrdom. The hair and beard helped with this image.

Possibly there are parallels with cult leaders persecuted for what they believe is the truth?

I think he is psychologically compromised in some deep complex way (that's not an excuse)

@mids2019 yes a self confessed narcissist. Combined with a sex addiction. Terrifying really when you think about it.

You don't own righteousness. There are always a variety of persepctive in any situation. Women are not by nature victims and life is not always black and white.

None of this is at all shocking ( even if some details are very unpleasant), not if you were previously aware of the extent of his promiscuity, had read his book, or been to any of his shows.

I also wonder why this investigation now? What is the motive? It is years after the alleged incidents.

I also have concern for his pregnant wife and daughters

Reportedly more women are coming forward.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66835997

he’s given me the ick, but I can’t quite believe I read ‘My Bookywook’ and didn’t come away thinking ‘this man is a sexual predator’. Or maybe I did but concluded that’s just what some men are like. The quotes from the book in one of the Times articles are jaw dropping, particularly the one about spitting in a woman’s face.

maybe times have changed and it’s allowed the scales to drop from my eyes. Hope so

None of this is at all shocking ( even if some details are very unpleasant), not if you were previously aware of the extent of his promiscuity, had read his book, or been to any of his shows.

Promiscuity is not the same as rape and sexual assault. People were aware that RB had been a "sex addict" not that he is a rapist.

I also wonder why this investigation now? What is the motive? It is years after the alleged incidents.

Well yes. If you understand anything about rape and SA you will know that it often takes years to process, years to recover, years to decide how to move on. Maybe this is the first time anyone has asked them the question, and listened to the answer.

The quotes from the book in one of the Times articles are jaw dropping, particularly the one about spitting in a woman’s face.

And the one about him kicking his dog downstairs as a child. Really chilling.

From @WinterDeWinter on the Biggest News Story thread:

In the passage from his book, basically this dog (which he was disappointed about, because his mum got him a rescue, not the dog breed he wanted) was forbidden from going upstairs. RB would stand on the landing, enticing the dog upstairs with loving words and behaviour. She would go up the stairs, but once at the top, he says she would get "Mr Hyde", he would stop being loving and start telling her off for coming upstairs, and he would actually kick her back downstairs. He would then go downstairs and start giving her a sympathetic cuddle and say, "Oh Christ, you seem to be kicked down the stairs, that's terrible." He laughs about it, about the dog not knowing if she would get Jekyll or Hyde. This is when he was 7/8 years old. That book is from 2007. He was showing everyone who he is, and who he has always been, all the way back then.

I watched 'Dispatches' and heard the testimonies.

The problem as i see it ( and sometimes it can feel as if people are not allowed to be honest on some subjects and that only one narrative is permittted) is that all of the 'incidents' arose in the context of an already existing and 'consesnsual' relationship - even the 16 year old.

I always liked older men when I was younger ( and my husband is 20 years older than me) and had I been involved in a simlar situation I might have gone along with it too ( charismatic celebrity who was paying me lots of attention). In fact I had a similar sort of experience with a man in his 40's when I was 16 - in which he definitely took advantage of me. I can look back on it in retrospect and see what happened; but it didn't leave me traumatised; it did leave me a lot wiser about certain sorts of situation, though.

I recall Germaine Greer saying that incidents that could officially be classified as rape were not always the worst thing to happen to a woman - that sometimes they could just be put down to 'bad sex'. For me the spitting and choking are the worst aspects of what went on - because that is not even sex - just disgusting abuse.

If those things had happened in the context of a relationship ( however short lived) with someone non famous would the women ( or myself in that situation) have come forward - or would they ( I) have just moved on and put it down to a bad experience?

I get psychopathic narcissistic vibes.

One of the most poignant parts of the documentary was the ex assistant who could only get his attention with an image of his own face.

Yes, he's definitely a Jelkyll and Hyde, bi-polar person. He's very extreme. That has always been obvious.