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Feminism: chat

White Feminism

598 replies

Brefugee · 22/08/2023 10:25

suggested from another thread, is this something we should talk about. At the risk of being accused of being a TAAT it isn't that.

But on another thread a black MNer said that at a conference she had experienced racist comments from a panel, and she was the only one who pointed it out. And had been the only black person in the room.

The reason i brought up White Feminism on that thread was that the poster was instantly dismissed as a potential derailing troll. Which is... well not sure if the person dismissing the poster is white or not, but it was pretty much the very same treatment. Immediately written off as insignificant.

I've seen comments on the FWR board before that White Feminism rears its ugly head a lot, and that black mumsnetters don't feel comfortable on the board.

I find that shocking. But I'm not black or of any other minority. I'm a white 2nd waver - and i hope that i don't make racist comments or dismiss black women's experiences. I do hope that if i did, they would point that out to me. (and I'd be sorry they have to do that work)

So - should we talk about this? I do think it causes rifts where we should have bridges.

OP posts:
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Titerama · 27/08/2023 11:33

This if for you, FWR feminists who close ranks when a black woman challenges racism on these boards:


The Peril of Loyalty Politics

White feminist spaces, despite advocating for inclusion and empowerment, sometimes harbour an underlying dynamic known as loyalty politics.

It's the unsaid but often understood rule that white women will often close ranks and choose loyalty to one another over confronting uncomfortable truths when push comes to shove.

This isn't merely about sisterhood; it's about preserving privilege. For instance, if a white woman in a leadership position is accused of unfair treatment by a marginalised employee, her colleagues may rally around her without thoroughly investigating the complaint.

They might dismiss the issue as a misunderstanding rather than entertain the possibility that one of their own could be biased or discriminatory.

It's easier to uphold the image of a colleague or friend than to grapple with the realisation that they might be complicit in perpetuating inequalities.

This is just one-way loyalty politics can silence voices that are already struggling to be heard, creating a false sense of unity at the expense of true equality and inclusion.

This dynamic of loyalty can ostracise women of colour, making them feel like outsiders even in spaces that profess to be inclusive.

The danger here is twofold: not only does it perpetuate systemic inequalities, but it also erodes trust.

When loyalty is prioritised over fairness, justice, and genuine introspection, it challenges the very foundation of feminist values and further marginalizes those already on the fringes.

Nagela Dales

Being women who pride themselves on high standards of critical thinking, and for listening to all women, I’m sure you’ll want to read further.

You can find the whole article here

Professional Love Bombing: Navigating Hidden Power Dynamics

I have spent the last few months recovering from what I deem as professional love bombing. When people think of love bombing, they typically envision whirlwind romances where one partner showers the other with affection, only to reveal manipulative and...

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/professional-love-bombing-navigating-hidden-power-dynamics-dales

SavBlancTonight · 27/08/2023 12:27

DojaPhat · 26/08/2023 17:35

Assumptions are really terrible in my opinion. Assumptions can often make things seem much worse than they are in reality. For example everytime a woman bemoans workplace sexism I always think but I've never once been asked to make the tea, take minutes of the meeting, nor has anyone ever commented how little maternity leave I took. It seems the women who post about these things are really making it difficult for the rest of us who can clearly see that workplace sexism is just a made-up term that gives women an easy way to opt-out of duties which everyone has do to at one time or another in the workplace.

Just like in Regina's post upthread, completely fails to grasp that many women earn and pay their own way without need to rely on their rich husbands. It's almost as though a disparity, or something akin to a pay gap, exists between the earning potential of men and women. I've worked all my adult life so there's no truth in that.

Mind blowing that because something hasn't happened to you it therefore hasn't happened to anyone. It's the extreme version of white feminism.

I won't even entertain the theory that issues in the workplace aren't to do with sexism. It's so hilariously ridiculous. But this is the attitude black women are fighting against I imagine- I didn't see it or experience or believe it so its not real.

Mind blowing.

DojaPhat · 27/08/2023 13:32

@SavBlancTonight I thought I'd written such an exaggeratedly ridiculous post my intention to lampoon the 'It never happened to me therefore it's not real' would be obvious! It was in response to the poster who I think quoted Regina's post with "Assumptions Much!!" something about it being naive to think women don't or can't earn their own money these days. A bit like saying you've never had an issue with any healthcare treatment you've received so it follows the concerns women have about HCPs taking their concerns seriously is a non-issue.

Titerama · 27/08/2023 18:34

DojaPhat · 27/08/2023 13:32

@SavBlancTonight I thought I'd written such an exaggeratedly ridiculous post my intention to lampoon the 'It never happened to me therefore it's not real' would be obvious! It was in response to the poster who I think quoted Regina's post with "Assumptions Much!!" something about it being naive to think women don't or can't earn their own money these days. A bit like saying you've never had an issue with any healthcare treatment you've received so it follows the concerns women have about HCPs taking their concerns seriously is a non-issue.

Even better, if you don’t remember it happening, but then when you are shown evidence you don’t recognise the names of anyone who did do it, it’s fine because that means it wasn’t any of your gang and you can hand-wave it away. Easy!

Just another non-issue that isn’t worthy of discussion on the sex and gender board where the best critical thinkers and oh so smart women are.

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 19:25

The utter stupidity of identity politics is laid
bare in this one:
a woman (who happens to have a skin colour of whatever) is a victim of domestic physical violence (my neighbour, poor woman) verbal abuse (I hear it regularly) and emotional/financial blackmail.
She lives next door. One day she's got no choice - she flees next door - that's me. I take care of her - tea,
food, comfort, talk & hugs, etc. No worries, I tell her.
The next thing I know, the police are at my door accusing me of RACIALLY inspired "hate crime".
The partner managed to call them in the meantime
and spin the narrative. I'm arrested, on the spot,
the poor woman, left in my own flat - no keys, nothing,
she's protesting - nobody listens. NOBODY.
Her partner was the first in the queue - accusing me
of racism for helping his wife in distress (she's the same
ethnic origin as him).
I'm arrested in my own home, for helping my lovely neighbour. And she's absolutely lovely.
Her only problem is this fucking thug & bully.
To this day (2 years ago it was) I'm trying to fight and remove THE CRIMINAL record I got that day by simply being accused of 'racially inspired' crime.
No joy.
I am classified as ' white'.
That means I'm guilty by default.

Rummikub · 27/08/2023 19:34

That’s shocking. Did the police not interview the woman? Get her side?

Gwenhwyfar · 27/08/2023 19:37

That really is shocking. Could you sue the neighbour for damage to your reputation?

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 19:50

That's your 'white privilege' nowadays.
You'll get arrested on a mere accusation of racism.
In your own home, while helping an Afro-Caribbean
heritage woman scared for her life.
They even got (police) my whole phone, computer,
etc. trying to prove that I am, in fact racist.
I can only say this: the wokemons are fast running out of the 'most vulnerable & minoritised communities' they
could recently invent.
That's why every/any mental health issue under the sun - will be a part of their ideological armour.
Appy days to come...

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 19:57

Of course, she tried. I tried.
She's also sort of shell-shocked.
I tried everything. Once it's on your record
and it is classified as a 'hate crime' it's virtually
impossible to expunge.
I wrote to my Labour MP 6 months ago, no peep.
Nothing.
I'm a criminal now.

beastlyslumber · 27/08/2023 19:59

You could try the Free Speech Union - they have helped a lot of people get rid of 'hate crime' records against them.

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 20:12

I don't want to sue anyone (esp. My lovely Girl-
neighbour for anything, I've no 'reputation'
to speak of, mind you.)
I just want what's fair and just - not a judgment
based on my supposed "whiteness".
My neighbour sought shelter in my home.
She did not give a shit for the colour of my skin.
She knew I would help her, no matter what.

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 20:37

And her kitties - both of them.
Which I always do - we bonded so tremendously
(my neighbour and I) over their 2 lovely furry/purry
Fluffies: Teddy & Gingy.
(As I call them and feed them, too).
So, that's why perhaps she was comfortable enough
in her hour of need to ask me for help.
That's all.

Bex5490 · 27/08/2023 20:41

What was the criminal charge?

Bex5490 · 27/08/2023 20:52

And after they had mistakenly arrested you, they came up with enough admissible evidence to charge you all just because you’re white…wow. Just wow.

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 20:54

"Aggravated...communication of
sth OFFENCE/ indecent public order offence".
I don't know. I (didn't even tell my mum in Poland)
that I have a CRIMINAL stuff in the UK.
I'm 52. FFS.
I was probably NEVER properly arraigned.
If that's the term.
No one ever said to me (Miranda's):
"You have a right to stay silent..."

BlueMoe · 27/08/2023 20:57

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 20:54

"Aggravated...communication of
sth OFFENCE/ indecent public order offence".
I don't know. I (didn't even tell my mum in Poland)
that I have a CRIMINAL stuff in the UK.
I'm 52. FFS.
I was probably NEVER properly arraigned.
If that's the term.
No one ever said to me (Miranda's):
"You have a right to stay silent..."

I think Fair Cop might be interested in this.

Bex5490 · 27/08/2023 21:03

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 19:50

That's your 'white privilege' nowadays.
You'll get arrested on a mere accusation of racism.
In your own home, while helping an Afro-Caribbean
heritage woman scared for her life.
They even got (police) my whole phone, computer,
etc. trying to prove that I am, in fact racist.
I can only say this: the wokemons are fast running out of the 'most vulnerable & minoritised communities' they
could recently invent.
That's why every/any mental health issue under the sun - will be a part of their ideological armour.
Appy days to come...

So the police arrested you. In your own home for an unspecified racially aggravated indecent public order offence with a woman who was denying that you had done anything all because you’re white? As you are able to write such an articulately written post like this one…I am surprised that you haven’t found out what specifically you have been criminally charged with so you can appeal it. I think maybe you should as the whole story sounds so unfair and absolutely wild.

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 21:08

If I was guilty of ANYTHING:
put me on trial, please. And pronto.
I will defend myself on the stand.
If, not - I demand my record of "hate crime"
be expunged with immediate effect.
Or, better still, ask my girl-neighbour:
who actually helped her that night?

Bex5490 · 27/08/2023 21:15

I don’t think you can ‘expunge the hate crime’ if you’re unsure of what the actual criminal offence was. Hate crime isn’t a charge, it’s a category they put criminal charges into like ‘sexual offences’. What did they say you were supposed to have actually done?

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 21:17

I can give you the crime reference number.
I was also given "a victim satisfaction questionnaire".
From that very incident.
Would that satisfy your curiosity, or should
I refer you to some other specialist?

Insommmmnia · 27/08/2023 21:24

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 21:17

I can give you the crime reference number.
I was also given "a victim satisfaction questionnaire".
From that very incident.
Would that satisfy your curiosity, or should
I refer you to some other specialist?

Why would you be given a victim survey if you were not the victim but the apparent perpetrator?

That makes even less sense than the rest

BlueMoe · 27/08/2023 21:25

Bex5490 · 27/08/2023 21:15

I don’t think you can ‘expunge the hate crime’ if you’re unsure of what the actual criminal offence was. Hate crime isn’t a charge, it’s a category they put criminal charges into like ‘sexual offences’. What did they say you were supposed to have actually done?

Perhaps it was a Non Crime Hate Incident?

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 21:30

Both my neighbour and I were given the same stuff.
Looking for a common reason in the whole shebang?
Try this: at this point, the Met has no clue who's who
and who's doing what.
She's safe at my flat, He's calling the police telling them I'm racist.
Who would you rather listen to?

Parabellum · 27/08/2023 21:36

They never even knocked on his door.
On her own/joint flat/husband's door'
Big, red KEY (rammed) into mine).
A SWAT team is welcome.
He gave them my address.
As the next-door racist.

Bex5490 · 27/08/2023 21:48

Do you mean they knocked your door down with the big red key? Like a battering ram? With a SWAT team…this story just gets worse and worse. I’m so sorry you had to go through this…and all because of the colour of your skin. As you said ‘that’s your white privilege nowadays.’ 🤷🏽‍♀️

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