Mother arrested in front of child by Met over bus fare (that she had paid!)

[TERFinTheHouse]

Tw: upsetting content

twitter.com/saskia_cole/status/1682705268721737728?s=46&t=p6GESSn09HWHVXYgTLIbJg

Why was this woman arrested like this!?! Her poor child!

According to other Tweeters, she had paid her bus fare BTW.

I have nothing but the deepest respect and admiration for any woman who had been through such a traumatic event as you have had to endure. I meant no disrespect or to minimise the trauma you experience nor did I use the comparison of threat level lightly. I was trying to convey just how damaging the behaviour of those women who are allegedly advocating for women is. As usual it was twisted out of context. Black women, too, have scars that will never heal. There is a growing body of research documenting the link between racism with mental and physical trauma. Trauma which has wide spread implications and is considered to be as damaging as that experienced by those who have experienced sexual assault or other violent trauma.

The honing in one point and distorting its meaning is the usual MO.

She's a black mother with a young child getting of a bus who has actually paid for a ticket and you start talking fared dodging armed gangs, odd behaviour and mental health. Good to see a balanced, non racially problematic perspective.. Not!

Racist people are a threat to black people it’s as simple as that.

Yes this is a succinct version of what I wrote. Although it's clear from the response to the threat level comparison that people are not aware the scale of the trauma inflicted on and in black bodies by racism.

Just to clarify not your response, but the general response (aka deliberate misinterpretation)

I really appreciate your response x

I didn't think you were minimising my experience at all. Before you even confirmed you did actually mean 'rapist' I thought about it and I thought about the trauma, being made to feel like nothing, and someone taking away your power. These things never leave you.

I know I probably sound stupid being so invested in this thread but I cannot stand people being made to feel as if their voices won't being heard, that they are powerless or made to feel they are worth less than the next person. Whether that be by men or whether that be by someone with a different skin colour. I have CPTSD and it's not down to that one incident obviously. Being treated badly over a long period of time is all it takes, no matter what form it is.

I can't lie, a few years ago I was one who said 'I don't see colour'. I had the best intentions because I meant 'I don't treat people differently because of their colour'.

Then I did some reading and realised I wasn't helping. Things are nowhere near how they should be in terms of equality and me pretending it isn't an issue because I didn't see it as issue, wasn't good enough. Not that I'm much help now but I try to call out people I think are being racist, challenge people's views and teach my children as best I can.

As with any parent the thought of anything bad happening to my children fills me with a visceral fear. I cannot imagine worrying when they leave the house that something might happen solely because they are a different colour and I can't believe people who claim to be intelligent can so quickly dismiss the fears of others.

She's a black mother with a young child getting of a bus who has actually paid for a ticket and you start talking fared dodging armed gangs, odd behaviour and mental health. Good to see a balanced, non racially problematic perspective.. Not!

Not sure how you get there from what I said, and what I was saying was that I suspect there was a MH element.

Nothing about being a black mother means she can't have a panic attack at seeing a police officer. I think a black person is more likely than most to feel distrust or trauma about the police. I don't trust the police and they'd put me on edge, and I'm not black (not white either).

I didn't say anything about armed gangs, I was just speculating on what the justifications were for TfL doing those big dramatic multi-personnel ticket checks with police backup. (Maybe I didn't express it well.)

Remember that not only do TfL protect their revenue like hawks, transport staff are unionised to the eyeballs, so it will have only taken a couple of incidents to arrive at this way of doing things. I don't support it but I don't see it changing anytime soon.

As I say, I gave up on it all and left London. London has changed so much for the worse. Armed police doing traffic stops in Brixton hill with sun machine guns casually slung across them. CCTV everywhere. It's not just Stop& search and bent police any more.

Yes and I had a great uncle who smoked like a chimney and he lived to 105 therefore smoking isn't bad.

Just because something happened to you doesn't mean everyone has the same experience.

100% on her thought she was above the law if she doesn’t want to comply with rules about showing tickets which is her choice then she needs to stop using public transport

she put her child in this position no one else

It is possible to prove if you've paid. The ticket inspectors have readers to check Oyster cards and bank cards. Are you in London?

Absolute rot. Your lack of compassion and decency is vile. Do you think if a white woman her age failed to show her ticket this would have happened? Especially one with a child nearby?

I have never seen such a disproportionate response for the “risk” of a person having skipped out on paying a few quid for a bus ticket. It’s not even like a long distance train journey where the fares involved are higher.

As people have sad there may have been a reason why she didn’t show her ticket like being targeted (as I recently was on the train. )

All she had to do was so here ticket
trams and train I commute on inspectors check everyone
What evidence is there that she was profiled

Mumsnet feminism at its absolute finest. Prominent GC figure sits with white suprematist, it’s defended. Multiple white women weaponise race and they’re obviously completely innocent and afraid of the terrifying black bird watching aggressors. Multiple vicious threads tearing down successful women of colour filled with stereotypes and microaggressions but obviously racism could never exist here.

At best they are misrepresenting the truth, I would love to see the full video. Her card was in her hand. No one who taps in would refuse the reasonable request to verify that they paid their fare in a normal situation where everyone is asked. Invariably the ticket inspector profiled her or massively escalated the situation when there was a delay (her struggling to find her oyster or bank card for example) then victim blamed to cover up.

As a black woman, absolutely nothing could get me to willingly prolong a wholly unnecessary interaction with the police. Especially somewhere like Croydon where they have been harassing black residents for decades. She would have known that any interaction could become disproportionate.

No evidence would ever be good enough, so why bother asking? Statistics, testimonials from woc, actual dead bodies all always explained away. There is a video in which multiple police officers are arresting a woman who paid her fare for £1.75 fare evasion. This would never happen to a white woman. If there was a machine that allowed some white posters to see the thoughts that led to racist actions, the racism would be dismissed as not intentional and therefore ok despite its impact.

Mumsnet feminism at its absolute finest

Mumsnet doesn't have a feminism. It is a mix of any number of random people who click on a thread title. Many of which aren't even women.

If you are clicking and responding then you are part of Mumsnet feminism.

So you are having a pop at yourself.

Yes they have readers for oysters not bank cards

@truthhurts23 that isn't correct. The readers are for bank cards as well.

They don’t actually scan your contactless card , they just read the last four digits on it and compare it to the bus drivers log which is like a receipt,
Readers can’t extract data from contactless cards, it’s impossible and it would be a privacy issue if any device had the ability to access that information

Also , if it turns out that the lady didn’t tap her contactless, the bus driver will also be reprimanded and possibly fined, so it’s unlikely that any bus driver will allow someone to walk on to the bus without tapping

I looked it up online and it says this

Card companies can't let TFL see any data on a contactless card itself - same for Apply Pay.
If TFL can store data on the reader, so can other people, which makes it a huge security risk.
Instead TFL keeps a record of all the cards that tapped in and out throughout the day, collates the information from each station onto a big central server somewhere, and than matches each tap in to a tap out at the end of the day - only then are you charged.

There's nothing for the ticket inspector to read, so they can't confront you because they don't know themselves.
Instead, the inspector's readers charge you a £0.00 'inspection fare' which is again recorded onto the server. When the server checks your card's movements for the day, if it sees the inspection fare but no corresponding tap-in, that is when the penalty fare is charged, which goes straight to your bank account.

so that’s how it works on trains but for buses they can just read the last four digits on your card and they can tell straight away if you’ve paid

I can't tag the poster who attempted to accuse another poster of essentially likening MN feminists to rapists but my wider point here is the style of rhetoric. When you consider the various ways in which Black women are gaslighted by society with regards to racism, you'll notice strong parallels in the argumentation style used to deny their lived experiences.

'Name the posters who are as bad as rapists then.'
'So are you saying the police should never stop a Black person ever at all?'

The more earnest among us will then go to great pains to reiterate the 'original' point, and attempt to rephrase the point using various clauses in the hopes of clarifying the point.

This style of argument will then go in circles pivoting a now completely different argument. Everyone then gets tired and 'agrees to disagree', but the crux of the issue remains nebulous at best - that we cannot be certain that Black women at large, and more specifically the Black woman in this incident, was the victim of racism (in society), enabled by a racist police force.

Remarkable stuff! Tory HQ should do a recruitment drive in this section.

Orrr, it's almost as if black women who consider themselves gender critical feminists are sick of seeing GC beliefs being exploited to push overt racism, and sick of being pushed out of feminist spaces due to racism.

has generated over 11 pages full of posters queueing up to call feminists racists.

No, it's generated 11 pages of posters who claim to be feminists queueing up to throw appalling, overtly racist comments around.

You have an awful lot of accusations to hurl at black women who object to "feminism" being abused as a way to push racism, yet not a word of criticism for the posters on this forum flooding Feminist Chat with racists posts, when they are the ones defaming and ruining the reputation of GC feminists by painting GC feminists as racists.

Ask yourself, who has the real agenda here: black feminists who want a space to discuss women's rights without racism, or people who so very desperately want to pain GC feminists as racist they seize any opportunity to flood Feminist Chat with racist threads and posts?

You sure? 😅

Thank you. I am glad that you understand that it was not meant to diminish or disrespect you or any other person who has endured such a trauma. I do not underestimate the strength required to live with challenges of CPTSD, through the good days and the bad. That vocal niche of racist feminists will always refuse to acknowledge the threat they pose or acknowledge that although origins of complex/ trauma and racial trauma are different, there are many similarities in the lifelong ways in which it affects our lives, our relationships our health, wealth and even our brains.

We all generally start out a little naïve. I suspect there was a time when I thought that people being colour blind was a positive. Most of us Black, White, Brown etc have to work on our own biases and prejudices. All any of us can do is what you, me and others are doing, namely being allies to those who are the same but different, when they are under attack. Those that stay silent creates a safe space for racism and prejudice to thrive.

It's not difficult to respect the police.

It bloody well is if you have been on the recieving end of bad policing.

Feminist Chat has changed so much in the years I've been here. For those of us who have been here for a long time and fighting for women's rights for a long time, the slide to the right and the rise of far right/religious extremism and the way the right have captured Mumsnet, is alarming.

I noticed a regular pooster posting Bible quotes in Feminist Chat the other day, I have nothing against religion and one of my best friends is a devout Christian, and maybe it wasn't with the intention to proselytise, but it stood out as an example of how much Feminist Chat has changed. I really can't imagine reading FC a few years ago and seeing Bible quotes.

I have been very shocked and upset by this thread although as a white woman, I recognise my feelings are not what's important here. I reported a lot of posts earlier on in the thread as racist and a lot were deleted.
For me this is the first time really recognising the level of racism on the feminist threads on mumsnet. I'm really sorry that black posters have had to endure this. It is truly awful.
As PP says it makes me question who exactly is posting on here and what their agenda is.