Genuine question: Male & Female segregation

[Fandangoes]

Why were toilets, changing rooms, sports, prisons etc segregated for men and women in the first place. What was the original logic for this happening?

Feminists have been saying the same things for the past several years. The only thing that has changed is that now there is public debate on the issue, and clearly, most people agree with feminists

This.

until mumsnet finally saw sense and created a dedicated section for all the transplaining.

"Transplaining", like mansplaining and other forms of "splaining" comes from a group perceiving their views and takes as superior (trans people) talking down to those they believe don't understand an issue (women).

OK, it was actually four years having checked the dates of the first threads. Big difference!

Point is, most women will think you're completely bonkers if you declare to them that you're Spartacus. 😂😂😂

I always remember the law which was only abolished a few years ago which said you could shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow after dark in certain market towns as they were historically prohibited from being there before sunrise or after sunfall.

I mean, can you imagine the sheer discrimination of it being recently legal to shoot a complete stranger based on their nationality! Much worse than having to tolerate a member of the opposite sex using the cubicle next to you.

In reality, nobody complained about it as it just wasn't a problem in everyday life. The trans thing is largely like that. It just isn't on the radar for most women as it doesn't affect them day to day, and pales in comparison to the nuclear threat, recession, etc. It largely just seems to be a bonkers Spartacus cult at this point. 😂

Fgs, that shooting a Welshman thing is an urban myth. There was a brief curfew in 1403. There was no law that was "abolished a few years ago" making it legal to murder Welsh men. Nobody worried about it in day to day life because it wasn't true! Ffs.

If it's a trivial thing for someone of the opposite sex to use the next cubicle, why is it such a big deal for a 'transwoman' to use the next cubicle to a man?

Florence, there is another space if you choose to use it. If you don't then that is fine. It is all your own choice. Enjoy.

But don't tell us that our concerns, especially when Scotland have just voted in Self ID and are hoping to make it illegal to even talk to kids about gender or sex, ae unfounded and irrelevant. You may think this is all fine, but banging on and on about how we are to be hung, drawn and quartered for thinking it isn't fine is medieval. A bit like the other things you appear to think are a current thing.

OK, I'm going to make this my last post as it's just turning into petty point scoring which wasn't my intention.

I have no issue with people discussing trans stuff. I'm just personally sick of reading about it after 5+ years of the same discussion rehashed ad infinitum. A whole dedicated (and thriving) forum was created to specifically discuss this topic so perhaps people could do what they're asking of others and stop invading their space.

If it's a trivial thing for someone of the opposite sex to use the next cubicle, why is it such a big deal for a 'transwoman' to use the next cubicle to a man?

This.

Feminism is all about sex, misogyny and sexism. There is no feminism without an acknowledgment of women's different status from men, and the barriers we face, most of which are due to perceptions of our female bodies.

I'm just personally sick of reading about it after 5+ years

Are you. Not sure anyone is forced to read specific threads here?

Threads started in Sex and Gender which are not about gender identity per se but which need a sex-based analysis are regularly moved from the thriving part of FWR into this part, if MN decide they can be used to bulk out this section, a section most posters didn't want or ask for as shown by the fact that no one really posts here.

I mean, can you imagine the sheer discrimination of it being recently legal to shoot a complete stranger based on their nationality! Much worse than having to tolerate a member of the opposite sex using the cubicle next to you.

How bizarrely privileged.

I'm not as fussed about it as I probably sound. It's just that I can see a certain parallel.

Lots of women state that they feel their spaces are constantly being invaded and it makes them uncomfortable. An additional space is created to cater for this but the 'invaders' refuse to use it as it doesn't validate their beliefs as much as being able to pick which space they use, even if the one they chose makes women uncomfortable.

An additional space is created to cater for this but the 'invaders' refuse to use it as it doesn't validate their beliefs as much as being able to pick which space they use, even if the one they chose makes women uncomfortable.

Please stop misrepresenting what actually happened.

Women wanting to discuss the effects of men invading women's spaces are now 'invaders' because we talk about it in a feminist forum and [shock horror] in other places?

Crikey.

How vile and misogynistic to effectively compare women posting on a parenting site to males causing distress by their presence in a female single sex space.

If you cannot cope with another woman posting her opinion somewhere you can read it on a parenting site, when it is a reasonable opinion to have and one that is held by the majority of the population, that sounds like you lack the ability to control your impulses and not click on a thread.

There is a huge difference between a woman who has been traumatised by male violence and abuse and person who has the ability to scroll past a thread they don’t like.

You posting here proves my point. 🤷‍♀️

An additional space was created for trans discussions as so many women were uncomfortable with the ideology constantly being pushed on them. You're deliberately choosing to post here rather than use that space. That's exactly what I said which you claimed to be untrue.

There was no "additional space for trans discussions" created.

Based on the self-centred whinging of a few non-regular posters who felt themselves too important to use a scroll function, and the goadiness of some obvious trolls, and against the will of most of the regular posters the FWR board was split in two.

The thoughts and prayers for the persecuted Welshmen running from English arrows comment was hilarious, though, so thanks for the laugh.

*I always remember the law which was only abolished a few years ago which said you could shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow after dark in certain market towns as they were historically prohibited from being there before sunrise or after sunfall.

I mean, can you imagine the sheer discrimination of it being recently legal to shoot a complete stranger based on their nationality! Much worse than having to tolerate a member of the opposite sex using the cubicle next to you.*

As a welsh person I have never been worried about someone shooting me with a bow and arrow (even when I was teaching archery to some pretty overexcited kids)

As a woman I have been sexually assaulted, harassed stalked and raped by men/a man.

Yeah in the list of much worse things that happen having men demand space in domestic violence and sexual violence support services is much worse than worrying about whether I am going to be shot with a bow an arrow because an outdated law wasnt repealed because it didn't need to be because other laws over rode it.

Besides which, it was supposedly only legal if it happened after midnight. And I'm a woman. So the chances of me being out alone after midnight are pretty fucking slim anyway thanks to male violence. Being shot with a bow and arrow just gets added to the long list of other male violence than might be inflicted on me if I walk around a city alone after midnight.

So just imagine if a woman had suffered a bad experience from a male in a female space. Reading about it could trigger traumatic memories. That's maybe something you should consider when spamming the topic over several different areas, despite loads of women complaining and mumsnet creating a specific space for discussion of it.

It's not even a case of just not clicking on the threads because, as other posters have pointed out, the topic gets shoehorned into makeup threads etc and stealth posted in AIBU 'for traffic' in threads that don't outwardly look trans related.

So why was it split in two? Was the decision to call the new part 'Sex and Gender' just a coincidence and actually nothing to do with gender discussions?

Why don't you ask MNHQ, since it was their decision? Then you'll be free to withdraw from the thread as you said you were going to do several posts ago.

I've made it quite clear what happened, as have other people. Not interested in indulging gaslighting and misinformation.

Privileged, uninformed, thoughtless and goady. Has no idea what women are actually discussing. I'm sure any threads these people start are a fantastic asset to feminist thought.

So when you are gaoled for failing to pay your TV licence, will you be happy to share a cell with, say Tommy Lee Royce from Happy Valley or Ronnie Barker from Porridge? (Other fictional male prisoners available) You know, share the loo in your cell that offers no privacy? Pee and poo in front of each other? Strip off in the showers with naked men, many of whom will have been gaoled for violent offences, around? Just wondering, OP.