Feminism: chat
Why Southall Black Sisters made the difficult decision not to attend the Palace’s domestic violence event
IwantToRetire · 06/12/2022 15:51
... During internal conversations, arguments for accepting the invitation ranged from: it would be a good opportunity to raise awareness of the discriminatory treatment received by migrant women when escaping violence; we need to make a distinction between an event to celebrate the coronation/monarchy versus an event to garner attention for violence against women and girls; increased visibility could lead to increased funding which was important for the services we run. Unspoken, but nonetheless apparent, was the human desire for recognition that such an invitation represented.
The arguments against included perceptions that it was a PR exercise for Camilla and it would make the Palace look good at our expense; there was no invitation to speak, only attend, which meant that we couldn’t even get our message across to the great and good; there was, no mention of funding attached to Camilla’s work on domestic violence (DV) on her official page. ...
Archived from an opinion piece in the "i" newspaper archive.ph/aVKqe
I was curious why this was in the "i" newspaper behind a paywall but not on their web site, but thought I would share as it looks at how women's groups, especially those from BME communities have, to choose between playing the game and sticking to principles / their politics.
But in checking their web site to see if maybe it had been published, I saw they have a statement up in support of Salman Rushdie, but not one in support of Sistah Space, so an now thinking maybe it was a bit odd to prioritise talking about why they didn't go rather than talking about the issue of racism. twitter.com/Sistah_Space/status/1597854380115767296
hmmmmmmm - so maybe there are two different discussions, institutional racism and compromises that women's group should or shouldn't take.
picklemewalnuts · 08/12/2022 14:03
This
" Personally I'm white but have an unusual surname that clearly isn't English so regularly get people making small talk about my heritage. It's never bothered me - I just say I don't know much because of xyz but best guess is this and usually ask them about theirs. For me it's just small talk and showing an interest in one of the key things that shapes us as people."
The problem is her job was to do the small talk (I get, oh you don't sound Welsh).
For some people, that isn't the innocent social small talk it is for others.
Lady S should have known better- she really should. I can believe it was an unthinking response to someone who appeared to be proudly displaying their heritage via their clothing, though.
It seemed to me that she committed the awful mistake of being so focused on her task she forgot she was dealing with a person, not a name on a list. The hair moving and irritating repetition of the question sounds to me like someone getting frustrated about being unable to get the information they've focused on.
It's sad and disappointing that charities would have to question whether this was an event they'd benefit from attending. Really shameful that we are so bad at this, that our institutions make people feel unwelcome.
Reugny · 08/12/2022 14:24
@picklemewalnuts Ms Fulani wore the same dress print as the woman, who was white, I saw at the bus stop the other day and famous people like Bette Midler have been known to wear. Ms Fulani also wore a cardigan.
So none of those clothing items are "African".
Also Africa isn't one country it is a continent of about 54 countries. Each country has different peoples with their own customs and traditions within them.
Shelefttheweb · 08/12/2022 15:27
RoseslnTheHospital · 08/12/2022 14:01
@Shelefttheweb LH did give her side, she accepted that the comments were as reported and resigned. I think that's a reasonable and proportionate outcome. Don't you? Unless you think that palace aides should be able to be racist if they want, and not face any disciplinary action?
LH has not said anything. She can’t. Others may have spoken on her behalf.
RoseslnTheHospital · 08/12/2022 15:42
The quote from the palace was:
“In the meantime, the individual concerned would like to express her profound apologies for the hurt caused and has stepped aside from her honorary role with immediate effect.”
Presumably you'd say that was someone else's words and not the genuine sentiment of LSH?
Shelefttheweb · 08/12/2022 16:22
RoseslnTheHospital · 08/12/2022 15:42
The quote from the palace was:
“In the meantime, the individual concerned would like to express her profound apologies for the hurt caused and has stepped aside from her honorary role with immediate effect.”
Presumably you'd say that was someone else's words and not the genuine sentiment of LSH?
That statement does not state she “accepted that the comments were as reported”.
Shelefttheweb · 08/12/2022 16:40
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 08/12/2022 13:42
Have you considered going back in time for a career as a high court judge in a 1980’s rape case? Your victim blaming skills are <chefs kiss>
it seems that the main problem as you see it is that the victim of racist abuse didn’t keep quiet about that abuse
Shelefttheweb · 08/12/2022 13:36
Of course she had to resign, she had become the story and regardless of what she actually said it is untenable for a member of royal support staff to be the story rather than the royals themselves. Equally she cannot present her side, her version of the conversation, as that maintains her position as the story.
What do YOU think would be appropriate punishment for LH? Do you think before imposing this punishment you should listen to LH or do you feel it is sufficient to take her accuser at their word? Should the same have applied to Maya, Caroline Farrow, Harry the Owl, Julie Bindle, Lisa Keogh, Allison Bailey, Miranda Yardley.... ? Or for that matter should Karen White, Barbie Kardashian, and Dana Rivers be given a trial or should we just punish them without one?
RoseslnTheHospital · 08/12/2022 12:38
Mob justice?? She resigned almost immediately, presumably to prevent an embarrassing investigation and more formal sanctions. That seems like a choice to take the least hassle outcome to me.
Unless you think that there shouldn't have been any consequences at all for her?
You seem to hold courts and disciplinary processes in disdain. So racist abuse should only be subject to the mob and punishment dependent on how riled they are? Their offence should not be considered by the court, or work disciplinary mechanisms where appropriate, listening to the evidence including the victim voice and deciding an appropriate punishment? You also think rapists should not go to court but what? The victims brothers go and teach him a lesson? What if the rapists brothers were bigger and better armed? What if the victim thought they had to keep quiet for fear the trouble their brother would get in in seeking extrajudicial justice for her?
What about JKR - do you think it is ok that the people who feel they have been somehow victimised by her should send her death threats? Those people feel genuinely (if wrongly) hurt by her.
NF was offended, that is not disputed. Of course she can speak, though I argue it should be to the palace. But for the BBC to place LH as the top story for 24 hours loudly proclaiming her a vile rapist stirring up hate against her, and for this to be echoed across the press, without LH being able to speak with her own voice is mob justice.
picklemewalnuts · 08/12/2022 16:41
It never occurred to me anyone was doubting what was said. The only doubt in my mind is whether Lady S's intention was as racist as it sounded.
I know people who would say things like that without intending to offend. If they are under say 70 then I have short shrift. No excuse for ignorance in anyone who uses social media, listens to the news etc. Regardless of age or background it needs to be challenged, and was.
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 08/12/2022 16:50
Shelefttheweb · 08/12/2022 16:40
You seem to hold courts and disciplinary processes in disdain. So racist abuse should only be subject to the mob and punishment dependent on how riled they are? Their offence should not be considered by the court, or work disciplinary mechanisms where appropriate, listening to the evidence including the victim voice and deciding an appropriate punishment? You also think rapists should not go to court but what? The victims brothers go and teach him a lesson? What if the rapists brothers were bigger and better armed? What if the victim thought they had to keep quiet for fear the trouble their brother would get in in seeking extrajudicial justice for her?
What about JKR - do you think it is ok that the people who feel they have been somehow victimised by her should send her death threats? Those people feel genuinely (if wrongly) hurt by her.
NF was offended, that is not disputed. Of course she can speak, though I argue it should be to the palace. But for the BBC to place LH as the top story for 24 hours loudly proclaiming her a vile rapist stirring up hate against her, and for this to be echoed across the press, without LH being able to speak with her own voice is mob justice.
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 08/12/2022 13:42
Have you considered going back in time for a career as a high court judge in a 1980’s rape case? Your victim blaming skills are <chefs kiss>
it seems that the main problem as you see it is that the victim of racist abuse didn’t keep quiet about that abuse
Shelefttheweb · 08/12/2022 13:36
Of course she had to resign, she had become the story and regardless of what she actually said it is untenable for a member of royal support staff to be the story rather than the royals themselves. Equally she cannot present her side, her version of the conversation, as that maintains her position as the story.
What do YOU think would be appropriate punishment for LH? Do you think before imposing this punishment you should listen to LH or do you feel it is sufficient to take her accuser at their word? Should the same have applied to Maya, Caroline Farrow, Harry the Owl, Julie Bindle, Lisa Keogh, Allison Bailey, Miranda Yardley.... ? Or for that matter should Karen White, Barbie Kardashian, and Dana Rivers be given a trial or should we just punish them without one?
RoseslnTheHospital · 08/12/2022 12:38
Mob justice?? She resigned almost immediately, presumably to prevent an embarrassing investigation and more formal sanctions. That seems like a choice to take the least hassle outcome to me.
Unless you think that there shouldn't have been any consequences at all for her?
Heavens this is a very strange post
let’s try to untangle this
do you dispute what was said?
TurkeyTeeth · 08/12/2022 17:08
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 07/12/2022 08:58
I hadn’t considered the reasons Ngozi Fulani may have had for changing her name. In hindsight it’s reasonably obvious though
I’m intrigued that some posters think the name you choose and the clothes you wear make it OK for someone whose job (ironically) is to make others feel welcome in an environment that may feel strange to them, to be downright bloody rude to you
I've seen lots of Igbo Biafran people on Twitter talking about how offensive Marlene Headley's appropriated name is.
Ngozi is an Igbo name. The Hausa-Fulanis committed genocide against the Igbos in Nigeria in the 70s and 80s.
IwantToRetire · 10/12/2022 19:14
Ms Fulani said she faced online abuse after highlighting the encounter. The charity issued a statement on social media on Friday night describing how "recent events" had forced them to pause their operations.
"Unfortunately, recent events meant that we were forced to temporarily cease many of our operations to ensure the safety of our service users and our team," the post on Instagram said.
Sistah Space was set up to support survivors of domestic abuse of African and Caribbean heritage. It advocates for women and runs a volunteer support service and food bank, as well as a charity shop and said it would be restoring its operations "as soon as safely possible".
uk.news.yahoo.com/ngozi-fulanis-charity-sistah-space-124612368.html
RoseslnTheHospital · 11/12/2022 08:39
TooBigForMyBoots · 10/12/2022 19:21
Mob justice? Lady SH resigned after embarrassing the RF with her disgraceful racism.
Ngoni Fulani is being hounded and hurt by the mob. As are the clients and staff of Sistah Space. Mrs Hussey is fine.
Quite. The attempt to flip focus onto NF and her charity was immediate and vicious.
LondonWolf · 11/12/2022 17:37
Quite. The attempt to flip focus onto NF and her charity was immediate and vicious.
Well there seems to be a great deal to focus on!
Are people supposed to just ignore all this? Absolutely ludicrous to suggest so. We are all about holding people to account in the current climate aren't we? Are we just to ignore these dodgy dealings because the people involved of POC?
twitter.com/justpikachoo/status/1601735411860406274?s=61&t=5XSQN8xIPUkE1RBzvz_0gQ
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